Author Topic: Where it makes sense to go Russian  (Read 13868 times)

Mr. Pitz

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Re: Where it makes sense to go Russian
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2017, 08:51:21 AM »
Well, perhaps you can help me critique articles such as these: Possible Russian Weapons Options for AFP

Quote
The improving relations between Russia and the Philippines serve as a primary sign that the Russians may offer these said weapons in the sense that it may find ideal to the armed forces. However, these things will never just deal and immediately procure without any conditions like for instance, having Mi-17 or Mi-24 may serve as a logistical nightmare wherein the PAF already runs different types of helicopters in the arsenal. In that case though, existing helicopters such as Bell 412 and AW109s will be in favor for since those are the ones that are already in the PAF arsenal. Another is the rifles. It is deemed possible for the AFP to have AK-101s, RPG-7s Dragunov rifles and drones since it seems that the Department of National Defense is after such weapons albeit that it can be changed as well as the decisions pertaining to it and the same may apply to other weapons candidate here which leaves to the perusal or rather, the decision of the Defense Department. But then again, these matters will never downplay the possibility for the Philippines to have such weapons considering that such decision may be remote for today, it will be different by tomorrow or by the next day where the AFP will diversify weapons sources that has it's advantages on multiple sources and a logistical disadvantage. Overall, the Russian weaponry as well as the western ones will definitely benefit the Philippines in order to protect its national sovereignty against any potential adversary wherein it does not favor the West nor the East, but rather for the benefit of the Filipino people who deserve to live peacefully.
Never assume unless otherwise stated.

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12th BCT

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Re: Where it makes sense to go Russian
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2017, 09:21:45 AM »
Well, perhaps you can help me critique articles such as these: Possible Russian Weapons Options for AFP

Quote
The improving relations between Russia and the Philippines serve as a primary sign that the Russians may offer these said weapons in the sense that it may find ideal to the armed forces. However, these things will never just deal and immediately procure without any conditions like for instance, having Mi-17 or Mi-24 may serve as a logistical nightmare wherein the PAF already runs different types of helicopters in the arsenal. In that case though, existing helicopters such as Bell 412 and AW109s will be in favor for since those are the ones that are already in the PAF arsenal. Another is the rifles. It is deemed possible for the AFP to have AK-101s, RPG-7s Dragunov rifles and drones since it seems that the Department of National Defense is after such weapons albeit that it can be changed as well as the decisions pertaining to it and the same may apply to other weapons candidate here which leaves to the perusal or rather, the decision of the Defense Department. But then again, these matters will never downplay the possibility for the Philippines to have such weapons considering that such decision may be remote for today, it will be different by tomorrow or by the next day where the AFP will diversify weapons sources that has it's advantages on multiple sources and a logistical disadvantage. Overall, the Russian weaponry as well as the western ones will definitely benefit the Philippines in order to protect its national sovereignty against any potential adversary wherein it does not favor the West nor the East, but rather for the benefit of the Filipino people who deserve to live peacefully.

How about some tough, constructive critique on your entire blog site?

LionFlyer

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Re: Where it makes sense to go Russian
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2017, 12:49:56 PM »
Could have discussed more on considerations and focus less on what to buy...

I see the AFP as open but wary of significant commitments because the current detente with the Russians is only specific to this Administration, and perhaps not the next one. This consideration will dictate procurement decisions.

Niche systems that does not affect inter-operability with the Americans and with low logistic footprints would be areas of consideration. Sniper rifles, RPGs, trucks would fit this category.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 03:12:13 PM by LionFlyer »

Ominae

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Re: Where it makes sense to go Russian
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2017, 07:12:03 PM »
Well Kalashnikov and ORSIS do make sniper rifles that are chambered for non-Russian/Soviet calibers.

Mr. Pitz

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Re: Where it makes sense to go Russian
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2017, 05:14:04 PM »
Well, perhaps you can help me critique articles such as these: Possible Russian Weapons Options for AFP

Quote
The improving relations between Russia and the Philippines serve as a primary sign that the Russians may offer these said weapons in the sense that it may find ideal to the armed forces. However, these things will never just deal and immediately procure without any conditions like for instance, having Mi-17 or Mi-24 may serve as a logistical nightmare wherein the PAF already runs different types of helicopters in the arsenal. In that case though, existing helicopters such as Bell 412 and AW109s will be in favor for since those are the ones that are already in the PAF arsenal. Another is the rifles. It is deemed possible for the AFP to have AK-101s, RPG-7s Dragunov rifles and drones since it seems that the Department of National Defense is after such weapons albeit that it can be changed as well as the decisions pertaining to it and the same may apply to other weapons candidate here which leaves to the perusal or rather, the decision of the Defense Department. But then again, these matters will never downplay the possibility for the Philippines to have such weapons considering that such decision may be remote for today, it will be different by tomorrow or by the next day where the AFP will diversify weapons sources that has it's advantages on multiple sources and a logistical disadvantage. Overall, the Russian weaponry as well as the western ones will definitely benefit the Philippines in order to protect its national sovereignty against any potential adversary wherein it does not favor the West nor the East, but rather for the benefit of the Filipino people who deserve to live peacefully.

How about some tough, constructive critique on your entire blog site?

Perhaps that may help too. Considering LionFlyer's idea as well...
Could have discussed more on considerations and focus less on what to buy...

I see the AFP as open but wary of significant commitments because the current detente with the Russians is only specific to this Administration, and perhaps not the next one. This consideration will dictate procurement decisions.

Niche systems that does not affect inter-operability with the Americans and with low logistic footprints would be areas of consideration. Sniper rifles, RPGs, trucks would fit this category.

There perhaps have many factors to play on procurements (Nuclear non-proliferation, logistical issues, interoperability) which should be considered as well.
Never assume unless otherwise stated.

Protect the integrity, sovereignty and welfare of the Philippine Republic

adroth

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Re: Where it makes sense to go Russian
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2017, 11:59:25 PM »
There perhaps have many factors to play on procurements (Nuclear non-proliferation, logistical issues, interoperability) which should be considered as well.

The point that I raised with you in PM is highest of all.

RHK's blog may be crap. But at least he appears to take that particular step. So it's crap that come across unencumbered by that issue.

adroth

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Re: Where it makes sense to go Russian
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2017, 12:00:48 AM »
This one is a long shot. But when looking to non-traditional sources . . .

. . . might as well study non-traditional equipment

This is another thread that was lost when Timawa went away. With improved Russian relations, might as well put this out there.

One piece of technology that could potentially be open to us would be Over-The-Horizon radars that could keep watch over the WPS and the rest of our EEZ.
Russia has its own line of OTH radars, like the 29B6 "Kontayner" OTH. These are extremely large. Check out one instance of Kontayner on Google Earth, and how it compares with the scale beside it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@56.69385,43.4786291,1177m/data=!3m1!1e3

http://www.sigidwiki.com/wiki/29B6_'Kontayner'_OTH_Radar



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If the AFP were ever to acquire such a system, and be funded to operate it continuously, it would require a fairly large space to operate it.

Would it make sense to install it in Fort Magsaysay?

LionFlyer

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Re: Where it makes sense to go Russian
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2017, 09:33:26 PM »
Niche systems that does not affect inter-operability with the Americans and with low logistic footprints would be areas of consideration. Sniper rifles, RPGs, trucks would fit this category.
To expand on my previous points, I would put down the criteria of high impact, low footprint for the wary, first time Russian equipment buyer. What is high impact, low footprint? It simply means the introduction of an capability that represents a technological/capability leap over what's in service, but at the same time, carries manageable support requirements and operational changes. Here are some examples:

1. MANPADS

Russian MANPADS will be a step-up capability compared to the guns only, MK1 eyeball guided AAA kit that has been trotted out for parades and APEC/ASEAN meetings. Their capability (9K38 Igla or the newest 9K333 Verbets) are a match for anything the West has and even Singapore fields the Igla. The logistic footprint is also manageable, with the basics being just the launch tube and the missile. A more complete solution would be to obtain a launch platform similar to the Strelets launcher or the Djigit launcher. Further investments could be make to obtain the trainer system but that could be optional.

[Igla]http://www.kbm.ru/en/production/pzrk/361.html
[launcher options]http://www.kbm.ru/en/production/pzrk/pupzrk/
[trainer]http://www.kbm.ru/en/production/exercise-machines/in-complexes/464.html


2. Anti-tank missiles

Anti-tank missiles would represent a new capability for AFP. While it would be expensive and foolhardy to use it to deal with local terrorists, the introduction of an ATGM capability would present a clear threat to conventional adversary. Again, Russian systems have a good reputation in recent years in Iraq and Syria and its logistic footprint is manageable.

[kornet-e]http://www.kbptula.ru/en/productions/antitank-guided-weapon/kornet-e
[kornet-em]http://www.kbptula.ru/en/productions/antitank-guided-weapon/kornet-em/automatic-launcher-on-carriers



3. Precision guided artillery

Precision guided artillery were first introduced in the 1980s by Western armies as way to transform conventional artillery into potential anti-tank platforms with systems such as the laser guided M712 Copperhead, to now GPS, sensor fuzed systems like the BONUS/SMart. These act as force-multipliers that increase the firepower options of PA in dealing with conventional and unconventional threats.
Russian Krasnopol laser guided shells are compatible with NATO standard 155mm tubes used by PA. Other than the rounds themselves, the only logistics requirements are likely to be testing equipment and laser designation for the forward observer.

[krasnopol-M2]http://www.kbptula.ru/en/productions/artillery-guided-weapon-systems/krasnopol-m2
[malakhit laser designator]http://www.kbptula.ru/index.php/en/productions/artillery-guided-weapon-systems/malakhit



4. (Vehicle) PTS

I'm not for the sexy things like tanks. Rather the Russians have some unique kit which are one of a kind in the world and one of them is the Plavayushchij Transportyer - Sryednyj or the PTS. Why this? It's 12 ton payload and amphibious capabilities means it is one vehicle / landing craft hybrid that can have a impact both in a military sense and improving HADR responses. Being primarily mechanical, the logistic requirements would likely be manageable as well.

[PTS-4]http://www.military-today.com/trucks/pts4.htm


5. (Vehicle) TMM-6

Bridge layers are a very under appreciated piece of equipment. It keeps an army moving and is essential for any armor unit. This capability is non-existent in PA presently.  The TMM-6 is the cost effective version using the MZKT-7930 8x8 truck chassis , compared to the MTU-90 which is based on the T-90 tank chasiss.

[JSC TMM-6]http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/CC06%20-%20TMM-6.html
[JSC TMM-6]http://www.janes.com/article/57586/russia-develops-tmm-6-bridge-system



So instead of MiG, Sukhois fighter jets, Mil-35 attack helicopters, massive SAM complexes, I submit to you an unsexy but still potentially transformative list of russian equipment.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 08:31:03 PM by LionFlyer »

adroth

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Re: Where it makes sense to go Russian
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2017, 02:30:35 AM »
Time to bump this up  :)

adroth

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Re: Where it makes sense to go Russian
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2018, 04:19:50 PM »
Fleshed out even further

Russia to send first designated defense attaché to PH
By Joyce Ann L. Rocamora  June 28, 2018, 1:13 pm

http://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1039762

MANILA -- Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday has signed an order to send his country's first designated defense attaché to the Philippines, the Russian Embassy in Manila announced Thursday.

The move, according to the embassy, signals Moscow's determination to strengthen military and technical cooperation with Manila.

According to Natalia Naumova, press attaché at the embassy, no specific person was designated yet.

"It was the principal decision to establish such position at the Embassy. (We) will start working on it now as we have the frameworks," she told the Philippine News Agency.

The Russian leader's order comes more than a month after the Philippines sent its first defense attaché to Moscow.

As per an earlier post by Philippine Ambassador to Russia Carlos Sorreta, Col. Dennis Pastor was with his administrative assistant T/Sgt. Pablito Igne when he reported for duty in May 2018 as head of the Office of Defense Attaché in the Philippine Embassy.

He described the sending of a Philippine defense attaché to Russia as the "first time in over 40 years" of relations between the two states.

The bilateral relations of the two countries continue to improve since President Rodrigo Duterte assumed office in 2016.

Meanwhile, defense cooperation between Moscow and Manila developed further after the signing of the Agreement on Defense Cooperation and the Agreement on Military-Technical Cooperation in 2017. (PNA)

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