Author Topic: Retitled: Russia seeks military cooperation not alliances  (Read 21304 times)

Ayoshi

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Retitled: Russia seeks military cooperation not alliances
« on: October 07, 2016, 06:28:13 PM »
Manila, Moscow near deal on $12-m choppers | Manila Standard - October 07, 2016
Quote
An insider ad Foreign Affairs Department told the Manila Standard that the Philippines is looking to purchase either two of MI17 or MI24 to improve the country’s capability against possible internal and external threats.

We are looking of purchasing two to four MI17 or MI24. This is in line with President Rodrigo Duterte’s focus is more on internal security than external,” the source, who asked for anonymity, told the Manila Standard.

Although the Philippines is still window shopping, the source admitted that the Israel government is also pushing for their drones.

The heavily armored Russian helicopters are designed to withstand any kind of weather and are said to be low maintenance.

* 2015: Russia wants military, defense cooperation pact with PH


===

see also: Russian soft loans for military equipment

« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 01:42:07 PM by adroth »

adroth

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2016, 01:43:20 AM »
The PAF has been looking for ramp-equipped Medium-Lift helicopters for a while now. IIRC, they cancelled the Seaplane project for this.

This was also why we had that FB extension for medium-lift helicopters.

jetmech

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2016, 07:49:49 AM »
   I'm not sure where to ask these questions, but where did the U.S. failed with regards to Philippine relations?  Defense was where it was first noted (DU30'S view on FA-50 purchase)? That's too shallow whereas some of the counter insurgency initiatives have been assisted by the US, the most significant for me is that road project in Jolo (farm to market). Success is dependent on national and local government, though, not the US. There were probably hints way back the second Bush visit with regards to up-arming the AFP if only the Philippines will do its share (cost). The Perry class & F-16s were turned down by gov't (one solon said the F-16s were outdated, if I remember). Anyone care to clarify or dispute my observation?
   The current US administration from the start have avoided expanding conflicts and confrontations so it's no wonder it's playing safe with regards to offensive weapons . Of course, that policy have not prevented or even solved current world conflicts and sufferings of millions. But the way the current Philippine administration came out swinging after being cautioned about human rights issue, I only see a leader that only uses fear as a way to rule. His way or else.....(
    Finally, I'm trying to figure out what countries came out successful & economically with Chinese and Russians as major partners? That is, if the US and EU were to step aside. I was even amazed/ glad when the past administration was able to insulate the Philippine economy from the Chinese economic reset (it's still not out of danger of another bubble).  I'm not insinuating anything, independent policies are fine with me, but DU30's messages are confusing even to someone who grew-up sa "kanto"in La Loma and survived so many nights at Isla Puting Bato and Del Pan-Pasig River to Manila Bay pier (doing dry-goods & fish commerce).  I'm just hoping he will not drag the nation down with his style (or "gamble"?). 
     

adroth

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2016, 10:54:10 AM »
   I'm not sure where to ask these questions, but where did the U.S. failed with regards to Philippine relations?

Arguably those words were chosen for "dramatic effect" rather than accuracy. Only time will tell if it really has the effect that they appear to intend. Either it works . . . or a proud man will have to swallow hard.

http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=141.0

http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=277.msg550#msg550

Quote
I'm just hoping he will not drag the nation down with his style (or "gamble"?)

A gamble indeed.

We've talked about how the AFP has a perception problem and why. Need to put up the C-130 graveyard again.

The solution we've advocated for almost a decade was to show that we had learned our lessons and create a track record to earn that trust.

This administration appears to want to shortcut the process and set aside past observations . . . or else.

Buckle up . . . this is going to be a loooong ride with an uncertain outcome.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 11:12:01 AM by adroth »

redcomet_m

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2016, 11:33:08 AM »
@adroth
Seaplane? So is it a fair assumption that a navalized variant is being eyed like the helis of the mexican navy? Or sort of a canadian leased variant is preferred? Either way


adroth

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2016, 12:10:27 PM »
@adroth
Seaplane? So is it a fair assumption that a navalized variant is being eyed like the helis of the mexican navy? Or sort of a canadian leased variant is preferred? Either way

The seaplane project was reportedly the source of the funds. It was not a replacement per-se. So there may very well be no requirement for a navalized asset.

Only got one source for that tid bit, with no corroboration. So YMMV.

jetmech

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2016, 01:31:12 PM »
   I'm not sure where to ask these questions, but where did the U.S. failed with regards to Philippine relations?

Arguably those words were chosen for "dramatic effect" rather than accuracy. Only time will tell if it really has the effect that they appear to intend. Either it works . . . or a proud man will have to swallow hard.

http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=141.0

http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=277.msg550#msg550

Quote
I'm just hoping he will not drag the nation down with his style (or "gamble"?)

A gamble indeed.

We've talked about how the AFP has a perception problem and why. Need to put up the C-130 graveyard again.

The solution we've advocated for almost a decade was to show that we had learned our lessons and create a track record to earn that trust.

This administration appears to want to shortcut the process and set aside past observations . . . or else.

Buckle up . . . this is going to be a loooong ride with an uncertain outcome.

  It's not only him that will need to swallow hard, the entire nation will. Hofstede's cultural dimension/ Power Distance Index is showing its negative side.

Invictus

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2016, 04:12:07 PM »
Philippines, Russia Negotiate Military Cooperation

On December 5, 2016 Deputy Defence Minister Anatoly Antonov held negotiations with DND Philippines.

Quote
The negotiations were held in course of building up agreements on bilateral military cooperation, which had been achieved at the meeting of the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin with the President of the Republic of Philippines Rodrigo Roa Duterte on the summit in Lima.

In course of the meeting, Anatoly Antonov noted that Russia and Philippines were facing common threats, main of which was international terrorism. He also informed Rodrigo Roa Duterte about fighting of the Russian Armed Forces against terrorism in Syria.

<snipped>
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

adroth

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2016, 09:38:13 PM »
The sales pitches are making the rounds  :)

The author's views appear to be derived from the headlines without actually digging deeper to ascertain the PH's actual intentions

Why the Philippines is moving into Russia’s arms
December 26, 2016 RAKESH KRISHNAN SIMHA, SPECIAL TO RBTH

http://rbth.com/blogs/continental_drift/2016/12/26/why-the-philippines-is-moving-into-russias-arms_665323

< Edited >

The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) require an urgent infusion of modern weapons, but what the AFP doesn’t need are expensive toys. High-performance – and gas guzzling – warplanes like the F-16 (offered by the U.S.) or the South Korean FA-50 Golden Eagle jet fighter are redundant for two reasons.

One, the Philippines has no external enemies. Two, Manila will never be able to afford these jets in sufficient numbers to be able to present a credible defense. “Let’s contend ourselves with the propeller-driven planes but which we can use extensively in counter-insurgency,” Duterte said at a public meeting earlier this year. “I don’t need jets, F-16 – that’s of no use to us… we don’t intend to fight any country.”

About the FA-50s he said: “Why did you buy that?” Duterte. “What a waste of money. You cannot use them for anti-insurgency, which is the problem at the moment. You can only use these for ceremonial fly-by.”

Clearly, Manila’s primary security threats are land-based – communist insurgents and Islamic groups who have been running a separatist movement for decades. What the AFP requires are light ground attack aircraft that can be deployed against terrorists in the dense forests of Southeast Asia. The cheap and Syrian War tested Su-25 (NATO codename Frogfoot) is ideally suited for this role. It is a heavily armored aircraft that would provide Filipino troops close air support and is almost invulnerable to small arms fire from the ground.

< Edited >

Shrike

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2016, 06:25:43 PM »
Anyone know the loiter time of a Frogfoot?  If we have to buy Russian, and a COIN role is of paramount importance, wouldn't a Mi-28 or a Ka-50/52 be a better option?

adroth

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2016, 10:41:34 PM »
Anyone know the loiter time of a Frogfoot?  If we have to buy Russian, and a COIN role is of paramount importance, wouldn't a Mi-28 or a Ka-50/52 be a better option?

Shrike,

Try reading this

http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=788.0

LionFlyer

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2016, 10:47:38 PM »
Loiter time is a function of the nearest forward operating base where the platform is deployed.

adroth

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Russia offering submarines but PHL not keen on buying —Lorenzana
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2016, 03:03:10 PM »
Russia offering submarines but PHL not keen on buying —Lorenzana
Published December 30, 2016 9:24pm
By TRISHA MACAS, GMA News
Russia is offering to sell submarines to the Philippines but Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana on Friday said that it was unlikely that the Philippines would buy.

In a chance interview with reporters following the Rizal Day commemoration rites in Luneta, Lorenzana said he gave an update on his visit in Russia with Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr. early in December.

"Okay naman. Very aggressive sila na makipag-ano tayo sa kanila na relationship na military--hindi naman alliance kundi exchange lang ng mga estudyante, na personnel, participation sa exercises, mga observer lang sa exercises muna," Lorenzana said.

"At saka, gusto rin nila magbenta sa atin ng mga hardware. So tignan natin kung kailangan natin ang mga hardware nila," he added.

"Gusto nila magbenta ng submarine pero ewan ko... Hindi [natin kaya]. Masyadong mahal. Napakamahal ng submarine. At hindi naman siguro natin kailangan ng submarine dito," Lorenzana said.

But Philippines would likely purchase intelligence-gathering equipment from Russia.

< Edited >

- See more at: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/594189/news/nation/russia-offering-submarines-but-phl-not-keen-on-buying-lorenzana#sthash.2DWOIAkK.dpuf

mamiyapis

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2016, 11:34:25 PM »
Any sub will be expensive. But if someone in Navy can get to Duterte and explain... A PN sub program would re-arrange the board in the region.

Ayoshi

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Re: Russia Negotiating Military Deal with PHL ?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2017, 10:18:00 PM »
Russia offers Philippines sophisticated weapons and close friendship | interaksyon - January 4, 2017
Quote
Russian Ambassador Igor Anatolyevich Khovaev took the opportunity to hold a news conference on board the anti-submarine vessel Admiral Tributs.

He said he understood that the Philippines was intent on diversifying its foreign partners.

< snipped >

Khovaev said Russia had a range of weapons to offer.

"We are ready to supply small arms and light weapons, some aeroplanes, helicopters, submarines and many, many other weapons. Sophisticated weapons. Not the second-hand ones,” Khovaev said.

"Russia has a lot to offer but everything will be done in full compliance with international law."

He said it was too early to talk about the scope of military cooperation but, in a clear reference to the United States, said old allies should not worry.