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Did the Philippines violate the US-PH Mutual Defense Treaty?

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adroth:
Here's an interesting assertion on the FB extension, made in response to Sec. Yasay's statement about lack of support. Presumably connected to the issue of access to game-changing territorial defense equipment.

This was originally posted here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/rpdefense/permalink/1088648764554303/?comment_id=1088771324542047&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D





The article in question is the following section of the US-PH Mutual Defense Treaty

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/phil001.asp

ARTICLE II

In order more effectively to achieve the objective of this Treaty, the Parties separately and jointly by self-help and mutual aid will maintain and develop their individual and collective capacity to resist armed attack.

Does the Philippines' current lack of a credible external defense capability constitute a violation of the MDT?

horge:

--- Quote from: adroth on October 06, 2016, 04:34:29 PM ---Does the Philippines' current lack of a credible external defense capability constitute a violation of the MDT?

--- End quote ---

Heh.

The MDT doesn't provide metrics for determining party-compliance does it? How then, to determine?
Taking a legalistic POV without legal training is always lots of fun, but if we come back to reality, the MDT
was created with an eye to the U.S. to coming to our aid, rather than us coming to theirs.

FA-50PH provides a particularly-entertaining example of how silly it is to try getting legalistic on this matter.
We have the platform, but we don't have the air/ground crew training, the combat support infrastructure,
the sustainment infrastructure, or the political infrastructure to be able to fairly cite FA-50PH as a defense
asset (such as can be counted towards "maintaining a credible defense capability"). We have the bird, but
we can't yet use it in service to the MDT (and the inability has little to do with FA-50PH munitions), hence
we don't have it in a way that counts.

Even a dozen FA-50PH's wouldn't count under those circumstances.

It blows my mind how people are twisting their nuts over a lack of access to certain FA-50PH munitions,
when the point to FA-50PH acquisition, as I understood it, was to provide a TRAINING PLATFORM for our
air/ground-crews, for the combat support infrastructure, for the sustainment infrastructure and above all,
for the political infrastructure, BEFORE all those said sectors try coordinating together on the wielding of
something that's actually sharp/pointy.


adroth:
Welcome aboard H.


--- Quote from: horge on October 06, 2016, 05:07:01 PM ---
--- Quote from: adroth on October 06, 2016, 04:34:29 PM ---Does the Philippines' current lack of a credible external defense capability constitute a violation of the MDT?

--- End quote ---

Heh.

The MDT doesn't provide metrics for determining party-compliance does it? How then, to determine?
Taking a legalistic POV without legal training is always lots of fun, but if we come back to reality, the MDT
was created with an eye to the U.S. to coming to our aid, rather than us coming to theirs.
--- End quote ---

Exactly. This is how I called him out on his cheap shot. He has since softened his stance.



It's worth bringing up that even with the PH's limited warfighting capacity, the country responded to the US' call for troops when it invoked its various defense treaties in the wake of 9-11. IIRC, that's how we ended up sending troops and policemen to Iraq (and the subsequent pull out by Arroyo)



adroth:
To be fair to Regis, his half-thought-through statement was in response to Yasay's statement below. Yasay's speech appears (haven't seen the full speech) ignores' the Philippines' own dereliction of its own self-defense obligations.

But . . . this hyperbole could very well be an attempt setting off more aggressive, off-camera, defense discussions with the US. Taking a page from the Indian approach perhaps?

====

America has 'failed' Philippines, Yasay says
Joel Guinto, ABS-CBN News

Posted at Oct 06 2016 10:49 AM

MANILA - The United States has "failed" the Philippines, prompting President Rodrigo Duterte to break the country's "shackling dependency" on its long-time ally, his foreign minister said Thursday.

Washington has for too long employed a "carrot and stick" approach "to force Filipinos into submission to American demands and interests," Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay said in a statement entitled "America has failed us."

< Edited >

horge:

--- Quote from: adroth on October 06, 2016, 05:48:59 PM ---To be fair to Regis, his half-thought-through statement was in response to Yasay's statement below.
--- End quote ---
So, fighting carelessness with carelessness?  :P


--- Quote from: adroth on October 06, 2016, 05:48:59 PM ---Taking a page from the Indian approach perhaps?
--- End quote ---
I'm thinking the Chinese, which wouldn't be so strange for this administration.

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