Author Topic: Philippine Navy submarine studies  (Read 40167 times)

Ayoshi

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2019, 10:40:14 PM »
https://businessmirror.com.ph/2019/07/16/phl-may-acquire-first-submarine-from-france-dnds-lorenzana-says/

Quote
PHL may acquire first submarine from France, DND’s Lorenzana says
July 16, 2019

If the submarine deal with France, any other countries will push through, it will be the first time for the AFP to have such a vessel at its service and under its disposal.

< snipped >

Asked whether France or Russia has the better underwater fighting machine, Lorenzana said he is not an expert on submarines to be able to make such an assessment.

adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2019, 11:06:44 AM »
PHL may acquire first submarine from France, DND’s Lorenzana says
By Recto Mercene - July 16, 2019

https://businessmirror.com.ph/2019/07/16/phl-may-acquire-first-submarine-from-france-dnds-lorenzana-says/

The Philippines is considering an option acquire a submarine from France as part of the Armed Forces of the Philippines’s (AFP) multibillion-peso modernization program.

Defense Secretary Delfin N. Lorenzana revealed he will schedule a visit to  Paris this coming September to possibly shop for the military hardware.

“The Navy is considering France as source of our submarine [since] they [the French] are good at making them,” Lorenzana said during an ambush interview at the French ambassador’s residence while celebrating Bastille Day Sunday night.

< Edited >


adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2019, 01:21:18 AM »
Administrator's note: Reproduced on the forum with the author's permission

=====

Brown-Eagle Underwater: The Philippine’s Quest for Submarines
By CDR Mark R Condeno

https://www.facebook.com/groups/rpdefense/permalink/2313095772109590/

Introduction:

22 September 1914 in the cold choppy waters of the North Sea, a few miles from the coast of the Netherlands in less than 90 minutes, HMS Aboukir, HMS Cressy and HMS Hogue was sunk by SMS U-9 under the command of Captain-Lieutenant (Lieutenant Senior Grade) Otto Widdegen…the three ships were sailing line abreast on the turbulent seas when the German’s torpedo struck. A total of 1,136 lives were lost. The sudden attack struck a chord on both the British and German Navies, as it dawned the effect of Submarine Warfare.

30 July 1945, Philippine Sea fourteen minutes after midnight, six Japanese type 95 torpedo’s hit and sunk the Heavy Cruiser USS Indianapolis (CA-35) with 300 out of its 1, 196 officers and crew went down with the ship.

13 July-01 August 1950, China coast, La perousse Strait and Formosan waters, the early days of the Korean War, the USS Catfish (SS-339) and USS Pickerel (SS-524) make way towards a reconnaissance of the China coast to monitor the movement of the Communist Naval Forces who might open a second front on Taiwan.

20 December 2020- Off the Coast of Hainan, a platoon of Philippine Combined Reconnaissance Teams (CRT’s) jumped off from a C130 on the warm Chinese waters, a derring do attitude even for the elite soldiers with nothing but the blackness of the water below welcoming them until the massive black silhouette of BRP Vicente Catalan (U-198) emerged from the depths to quietly recover them from their descent and nimbly embraced them from the prying eyes of the enemy.

Three real world actions and one fictional scenario in four different timeframes with a solitary foci- the Submarine. The first, during the Great War, a time were in the undersea weapon was still in its infancy with early false starts, crude tactics and strategy and were most of the major naval powers had yet decided the role of the submarine in its fleet and conflict. The second, a tragic event in the closing days of World War Two which focuses on tactics, maneuvers and intelligence. Third, a typical characteristic to serve as the eyes and ears of the fleet but also have the chance to dealt a first blow to the enemy and lastly, in utilizing the craft’s stealth in inserting troops into hostile enemy territory.

More than a thousand articles and essays have already been written on the essence of the submarines and this article would be no different but would rather seek to explore the characteristics of a submarine that makes it a compelling weapons platform and discusses how they contribute to sea denial and maritime power projection for the world’s second largest archipelago.

Historical Precedents:

It has been 82 years since it was envisioned to be a part of the country’s future naval force the Offshore Patrol (OSP). During the 1934 Philippine Constitutional Convention, Delegate and Colonel Blas Villamor of the Province of Apayao proposed that apart from Rapid Cruisers, a squadron of Torpedo Boats and Submarines be procured to conduct the exterior offensive. On 09 February 1939, the OSP was activated but it was only the former that was procured and became part of the fleet.

The exploits of the OSP during the Pacific war is well recorded in our Naval and Maritime history and the story of the courage of its officers and men serves for us to emulate them, but what might have been if the OSP had submarines during the early days, would the Japanese landing in Lingayen be different?
It was in the late 50’s and early 60’s, that the Philippine Navy begun its quest for Submarines, specifically for 3 diesel boats coincided with the entreaty for PBY Catalina flying boats of the Philippine Air Force which was used heavily by Sulu-Air Task Group (SATAG) during the tumultuous days in Mindanao, nothing however on the submarines requested followed.

Another major item of interest during the 5 year AFP Modernization Plan from 1977-1981 was the acquisition of Submarines specifically conventional powered attack submarines in the class of the German Type 206 and 2 Training Submarines of the SST type.

The SST types were to be inducted in 1977 with 1 unit and another in 1979, while the Type 206s were from 1978 to 1981, for one Submarine each year.

Almost Two decades later, the request or proposed acquisition was again brought up during the 50s with the United States for 3 Diesel Submarines, 1 Destroyer and Consolidated PBY Catalina's, as in my previous post only the Catalina's were delivered.

Had these materialize the Philippine ASW Triad could have started its foundations.

Fortunately, the PAF PBY Catalina's worked well with the PNs 4 Harbour Defence Motor Launches (HDML) -all Ex Royal Navy but came from the Royal Australian Navy as they were Australian built. The HDMLs has Radars and forms part of our Anti-Submarine Force along with our 16 Submarine Chasers.

The Training Submarine in question might have been the US SST Type 1 or the Ex USS Mackerel which was decommissioned in 1973 as no other SST types were in operational service at that time.

Several years later, in 1998, the concept paper for a Submarine capability was endorsed by the then Flag Officer in Command (FOIC, PN) VADM Eduardo Ma R Santos AFP to the Department of National Defense which was received positively. A core group was established as early as 1999 during the incumbency of then FOIC PN VADM Luisito Fernandez AFP.

It was also in this period that selected Filipino Naval Officers were sent for schooling overseas namely in the United Kingdom and visits to Pakistan, who at that time operates the French made Agosta Class Submarines.

By the advent of President Benigno S Aquino III administration and coinciding with the debacle with China on the South China Sea, along with the desired force mix program that the establishment of a Submarine arm again surfaced with the projected acquisition of 3 vessels. Related to this matter was the establishment of a Submarine Group for the Philippine Navy in 2013.

Though several changes on the Desired Force Mix program has occurred, specifically on the requirements for undersea warfare under the Maritime Force projection package in which we envisaged to acquire two diesel electric submarines by 2018 on the 2nd horizon and four units on the 3rd horizon. In the subsurface domain, the Philippines continued participation on allied naval exercises that is geared for submarine related operations; seminars and shipriders similar to the program with the USS Cheyenne would not only benefit us but develop interoperability with our allies.

Operational Features:

Stealth, Freedom of Movement, Flexibility and Lethality are the primary characteristics of the craft and used collectively is a potent weapon on its environment.

Covertness is the essence of the submarine, paired with the geographical features of the country which it could use to its advantage through mastery of terrain, coves, bays and shallow waters. Stealth is synonymous with the crafts freedom to sail from one point to another regardless of poor sea and weather conditions. Flexibility on the other hand is still identical with the first two as it could readily assume a different role as noted on the third scenario above. Penultimately, the array of weapons, sensors and special operators it could carry makes the lethal punch to the enemy.

Sea Denial and Force Projection:

Several historical examples of Sea Denial can be cited foremost on the Falklands War of 1982 and the 1971 India-Pakistan War, the mere presence of HMS Conqueror and PNS Hangor had effects on both the Argentinean and Indian fleets.
Scenario 3 and 4 above is a classic case of force projection that would be vital for the country and the navy in dealing with Internal and external security operations such as infiltration into hostile shores and convoy escort duties.

Conclusion:

As vindicated above, though considered an offensive weapon- the introduction of a submarine flotilla in the Philippine Fleet would be a vital factor that should have been pursued early on…Historical background or familiarity with the boats exploits specifically during World War Two.

The confrontational strategic environment of the South China Sea, piracy, maritime terrorism among others makes it imperative for the Philippines to acquire Submarines while primary imperious is the country’s strategic location in the Southeast Asian region are further validations for a Filipino Submarine Arm.

Endnotes:

1. The Philippine Navy 1898-1998 By Professor (Commodore) Regino P Giagonia, HPN

2. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/…/pakistan/hangor.htm (accessed 04 December 2016)

3. http://www.2worldwar2.com/submarines.htm (accessed 27 November 2016)

4. https://en.wikipedia.org/…/Category:Korean_War_submarines_o… (accessed 05 December 2016)

5. An Operational Analysis of United States Submarine employment in the Korean War by LCDR Gregory M Billy USN, 1994.

6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM_U-9 (accessed 23 November 2016)

7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Aboukir_(1900) (accessed 23 November 2016)

8. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cressy_(1899) ( accessed 23 November 2016)

9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hogue_(1900) ( accessed 23 November 2016)

10. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Indianapolis_(CA-35) ( accessed 23 November 2016)

11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_submarine_I-58_(1943) ( accessed 23 November 2016)

12. Conway’s All The Worlds Fighting Ships, 1995

13. Maritime Review, July-August 2016 issue

14. http://nationalinterest.org/…/the-philippines-wants-submari… ( accessed 23 November 2016)

15. http://thediplomat.com/…/the-philippine-navys-submarine-qu…/ (accessed23 November 2016)

16. https://commons.wikimedia.org/…/File:Philippine_Fleet_Moder… ( accessed 23 November 2016)

17. http://maxdefense.blogspot.com/…/clarifications-on-reported… ( accessed 23 November 2016)

El_Filibusterismo1978

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adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2019, 06:53:39 AM »
Philippine Navy eyes to have first submarines by 2027
By: Frances Mangosing - Reporter / @FMangosingINQINQUIRER.net / 08:49 PM September 23, 2019

MANILA, Philippines — The Philippine Navy is looking to acquire its first-ever submarines by 2027.

Navy chief Vice Adm. Robert Empedrad said they had started to send personnel abroad in December last year for training ahead of the procurement of the submarines.

“As early as December last year, we sent personnel to France to train for our submarine acquisition program, which hopefully will have the first deliveries of two submarines in 2027,” he said in his speech in the ceremonial blessing for new amphibious vehicles and multi-purpose attack craft at the Navy headquarters in Manila on Monday.

< Edited >

Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said they have not yet selected the supplier for the submarines, but the Navy had started preparing for it.

“Wala pa namang napili, pero we have already a submarine force. Wala pang submarines, pero we are trying to improve their capabilities to run a submarine, para bago pa lang kunin yung equipment alam na ang gagawin. Para pag dumating yun, we can use them immediately,” he told reporters.


< Edited >



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adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2019, 11:44:08 PM »
PH Navy eyes French-made submarines
Published October 2, 2019, 5:16 PM
By Martin Sadongdong

https://news.mb.com.ph/2019/10/02/phnavy-eyes-french-made-submarines/

Vice Admiral Robert Empedrad, Navy flag officer in command, said though that they are still awaiting proposals to be submitted by other countries like Russia, Korea, and Germany to determine which will best fit their requirements.

As of now, Empedrad said the proposal submitted by France “is the most fit” for them.

< Edited >

“France’s submarine fits our requirements in terms of its weapons system, sonar capability and stealth design. It’s a very quiet submarine unlike the kilo-class of Russia which is very huge and expensive. It depends on the budget that will be approved too,” he said.

The Navy Chief said he expects that the Philippines’ first pair of submarines will be delivered by 2027.

“Initially, it would be just two submarines but the ideal is six just like Vietnam. I think they have eight that’s why they have a strong defense posture,” he said.

< Edited >

Ayoshi

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2019, 05:52:26 AM »
https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1082055

Quote
French submarine ‘fits’ PH Navy requirement
October 2, 2019, 5:41 pm

This is because the proposal of the company building the submarine fits the requirement of the PN due to its stealthy design, and good weapon and sonar capabilities.

While these characteristics are also found in comparable submarines like Russia's Kilo-class, Empedrad said the Russian model is very large and expensive for the PN to acquire and operate.

"We are continuously studying this and then hopefully we finalized what is our preference and then the budget will come out so we can bid it," the PN chief emphasized in an interview with reporters.

It is also possible that the project will be funded through government-to-government procurement, Empedrad stressed.

The Navy chief, however, clarified that the French-made submersible is not yet the preferred platform even if it fits the PN's requirements.

Ayoshi

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2020, 08:18:11 PM »
https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1212549/ph-french-navies-hold-subject-matter-exchange-on-submarines

Quote
PH, French navies hold subject matter exchange on submarines
INQUIRER.net / 07:22 PM January 13, 2020
The exchange of the two navies kicked off Monday at the Philippine Navy headquarters in Manila. The French delegation will also visit the Philippine Fleet, Naval Installation Command, Naval Sea Systems Command, and Naval Information and Technology Center in the coming days.

< snipped >

The French Navy committed to send a team of subject matter experts from different warfare fields to Manila who could contribute to the submarine warfare capability development program of the Philippine Navy, Roxas said.

< snipped >

The Scorpene diesel-electric submarine manufactured by French defense contractor Naval Group is one of the submarines being considered by the Philippine Navy as the source for its future submarine acquisition.

Ayoshi

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2020, 01:10:44 AM »
https://www.janes.com/article/93900/philippine-navy-chief-singles-out-subic-bay-as-possible-future-submarine-base

Quote
Philippine Navy chief singles out Subic Bay as possible future submarine base
24 January 2020

The depth of the water at the location has been assessed as suitable for submarine basing, and the service is looking to construct finger piers for this purpose, the vice-admiral added.

adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2020, 12:14:12 AM »
Navy Plans 50-Ship Maritime Force To Strengthen Claims On Disputed Seas; BRP Jose Rizal Arrives
According to a Philippine Navy source, “we are not competing with anyone” but only trying to “regain some respect from other countries in the region, show the flag and protect our own interests in the South China Sea.”

Manuel Mogato Monday, May 25, 2020

https://www.onenews.ph/navy-plans-50-ship-maritime-force-to-strengthen-claims-on-disputed-seas-brp-jose-rizal-arrives

The Philippines plans to spend an initial P75 billion to build a 50-ship maritime force, including short-range missile-capable smaller and faster vessels to protect the country’s security interests in the disputed South China Sea, a senior naval commander said.

About 100 other support vessels and more than 30 fixed-wing and rotary aircraft are also being considered in the Philippine Navy’s force mix that could cost the government more than P100 billion in the long term.

< Edited >

The Navy flag officer disclosed that at least four big-ticket items are in the pipeline under the military modernization program’s second horizon until 2023, to buy two corvettes, six offshore patrol vessels, two landing platform docks and eight fast attack interdiction craft.

< Edited >

The Navy’s force mix plan will address these deficiencies, the flag officer says, adding that the acquisition will allow the Navy to retire its legacy ships, many of which are World War II-era vessels donated by the United States at the end of the Vietnam War in 1975.

The rest of the surface combat vessels will be acquired in the third horizon until 2028, excluding electric-diesel submarines that are very expensive.

We have not abandoned the plan to acquire two to four submarines, but it will take time to train people who will man these vessels as well as build a base suitable for these sub-surface vessels,” the flag officer said, adding that they are looking at the experiences of Southeast Asian countries that operate submarines such as Vietnam, Indonesia and Singapore.

The Navy has been constantly reviewing its force mix plan after President Duterte approved in 2018 a revised modernization plan under the second horizon.

< Edited >

Four more frigates will be acquired until 2028 under the Navy’s force-mix plan. The frigates will be armed with anti-air missiles and will be primarily an anti-air platform, but they also have ship-to-ship missiles.

Twelve missile-capable corvettes will be acquired for anti-submarine warfare. Two corvettes worth P28 billion are planned to be procured until 2023. A South Korean shipyard, which built the frigates, will be awarded the contracts.

At least 18 offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) will be acquired for exclusive economic zone (EEZ) patrols. Six are planned initially for P30 billion and will be awarded to an Australian shipyard.  Six more are planned until 2028 to join six existing vessels – three former Hamilton-class cutters from the US donated in 2011 and three former Peacock-class corvettes from the British Royal Navy stationed in Hong Kong, bought in 1997.

Eight Fast Attack Interdiction Craft armed with short-range missiles from Israel will also be acquired, but procurement of 40 of these ships will be spread out through 2028. The Navy has allocated P10 billion for the eight missile craft.

Acquisition of 42 smaller Multi-Purpose Attack Craft from Taiwan is also planned. There are already 12 operating in the Navy; three are fitted with Israeli missiles, the first-ever missile gunboats in the Philippines.

Two more strategic sealift vessels are also planned and will be awarded to an Indonesian supplier, which already delivered two ships – the BRP Davao del Sur and BRP Tarlac. The two ships will cost P5.5 billion.

The Navy also plans to build an aviation force with 34 planes and helicopters, including vertical takeoff and landing drones, designed for surveillance and anti-submarine warfare. Shore-to-ship and shore-to-air missile batteries are also planned.

The Philippine Marines, which is part of the Navy, has a different set of weapons upgrade plan, including amphibious assault vehicles, rotary aircraft, drones, mortars and assault rifles.

< Edited >

adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2020, 02:42:00 PM »
French shipbuilder to open Manila office in bid to supply submarines to PH Navy
By: Frances Mangosing - Reporter / @FMangosingINQ
INQUIRER.net / 05:58 PM November 26, 2020

MANILA, Philippines—French shipbuilder Naval Group will open an office in Manila in early 2021 as it seeks to advance its serious interest in supplying the Philippine Navy’s first ever submarines.

The office opening would be the first step in fulfilling “a long-term commitment of cooperation and partnership in developing naval capabilities” for the Philippines, said the French defense contractor in a statement.

< Edited >

Among the catalogs that the Philippine Navy was taking a close look at is the Scorpene diesel-electric submarine which is manufactured by Naval Group.

Pierre-Eric Pommellet, Naval Group CEO, was quoted by Naval News in October as saying his company was in “intense discussions” with the Philippine government for the submarine purchase.

Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana, who had shown inclination towards the French submarines a few times, signed a nonbinding defense cooperation agreement with his French counterpart, Florence Parly, in 2019 for a possible deal to purchase submarines.

< Edited >

Read more: https://globalnation.inquirer.net/192394/french-shipbuilder-to-open-manila-office-in-bid-to-supply-submarines-to-ph-navy#ixzz6evxEX4lQ
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