Author Topic: Retitled: Where it make sense to install an Over-The-Horizon radar?  (Read 4670 times)

adroth

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This is another thread that was lost when Timawa went away. With improved Russian relations, might as well put this out there.

One piece of technology that could potentially be open to us would be Over-The-Horizon radars that could keep watch over the WPS and the rest of our EEZ.
Russia has its own line of OTH radars, like the 29B6 "Kontayner" OTH. These are extremely large. Check out one instance of Kontayner on Google Earth, and how it compares with the scale beside it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@56.69385,43.4786291,1177m/data=!3m1!1e3

http://www.sigidwiki.com/wiki/29B6_'Kontayner'_OTH_Radar



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If the AFP were ever to acquire such a system, and be funded to operate it continuously, it would require a fairly large space to operate it.

Would it make sense to install it in Fort Magsaysay?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 05:51:28 PM by adroth »

adroth

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What are we talking about

http://www.radartutorial.eu/07.waves/wa51.en.html

Over-The-Horizon Radar (OTH)

Normally radar systems have a problem: the bend of the Earth surface. The maximum range of these radars is limited by the radio horizon – slightly far away than the optical horizon. OTH radars use very long wave lengths with special properties of propagation. Given the long wavelengths, an OTH antenna array is a sprawled business, stretched out over kilometers. Some OTH radars use FMCW to maximize signal energy, and such systems require separate transmit and receive antenna arrays.

Several OTH radar systems were deployed starting in the 1950s and 60s as part of early warning radar systems, but these have generally been replaced by airborne early warning systems instead. OTH radars have recently been making something of a comeback, as the need for accurate long-range tracking becomes less important with the ending of the Cold War, and less-expensive ground based radars are once again being looked at for roles such as maritime reconnaissance and drug enforcement.

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adroth

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What our neighbors are doing. Australian OTH: Jindalee Operational Radar Network (JORN)

https://www.airforce.gov.au/Technology/Surveillance44-Command-and-Control/Jindalee-Operational-Radar-Network/?RAAF-dq9yQKwX6WliV2hNVcj38sG4oMWiAMtQ

Australia's Jindalee Operational Radar Network (JORN) comprises three Over-The-Horizon Radar (OTHR) systems and forms part of a layered surveillance network providing coverage of Australia's northern approaches.

JORN provides wide area surveillance of Australia's northern approaches at ranges of 1000 to 3000 km from the radar sites, and is used to conduct air and maritime surveillance in support of Australia's national surveillance effort.

JORN was designed to detect air targets equivalent in size to a BAE Hawk-127 aircraft or larger, and objects on the surface of the water equivalent in size to an Armidale Class Patrol Boat or larger.

The extent of available JORN coverage and actual system performance is highly variable and principally dependent on the state of the ionosphere, environmental conditions and an object's size and construction.

The detection by JORN of small wooden vessels is highly improbable, given the typical size, construction and speed of such vessels.



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http://www.satellite-sightseer.com/id/10636

https://www.google.com/maps/@-23.658676,144.147234,6215m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 10:30:11 AM by adroth »

adroth

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China's OTH

https://thetaiwanlink.blogspot.com/2009/12/pla-air-force-over-horizon-radar.html

A key element is believed to be a skywave over the horizon (OTH) radar. In November 2008, Sean O'Connor posted a great analysis of the OTH radar system and its role in an ASBM program on his IMINT & Analysis website, . . .


mayk

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http://www.navy-transmitter-facility-capas.com/index.html

I believe Camp O'Donnel in Capas Tarlac is a better location. Once home to NRTF and NavComSta. If it was good enough for the USN during the Cold War...

mayk

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Posted too soon, looks like the former antenna complex is now Cristo Rey resettlement area. Although there is still a lot of open space at the adjacent LAD complex.

adroth

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http://www.navy-transmitter-facility-capas.com/index.html

I believe Camp O'Donnel in Capas Tarlac is a better location. Once home to NRTF and NavComSta. If it was good enough for the USN during the Cold War...

Would there be as much open, unused, space in Camp O'Donnel as there would be in Camp Magsaysay?

What would be the minimum safe distance for homes and office spaces from the facility?

adroth

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Just adding to the multitude of reasons why this development is unlikely

Fort Magsaysay still has no power, water
By Ding Cervantes (The Philippine Star) | Updated October 23, 2013 - 12:00am

http://www.philstar.com/nation/2013/10/23/1248201/fort-magsaysay-still-has-no-power-water

SAN FERNANDO, Pampanga , Philippines -– The 2,000-hectare Fort Magsaysay in Nueva Ecija, base of the Army’s 7th Infantry Division operating in Central Luzon, has remained without electricity and running water for 11 days now since the onslaught of Typhoon Santi.

Col. Ernesto Torres, chief operations officer of the 7th ID, told The STAR that their offices as well as hundreds of homes of military personnel in the camp still have no power.

Fire trucks provide the camp with water as its water system is dependent on electricity, he said.

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mamiyapis

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Any effort to build a dedicated OTH radar similar to JORN or OTH-B would require capital investment in a location far away from any civilization, if only to ensure minimum radio clutter from the surroundings, but also to effect maximum security for an asset that will be our nation's eyes and ears into the region.

Tarlac is large enough to house a site, maybe in the CAR.

adroth

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Re: Retitled: Where it make sense to install an Over-The-Horizon radar?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 05:53:49 PM »
Looks like Fort Magsaysay isn't the largest tract of land that the government owns. Camp Peralta in Capiz, at 33,000 hectares is waaay bigger. Title change time.

From: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/220661/army-camp-in-capiz-offers-land-for-tourism#ixzz4W6c2x4FV

Headquarters of the Army’s 3rd Infantry (Spearhead) Division (3ID), the 33,310-hectare camp

. . .

The 3rd Division occupies only about 1,000 ha of the reservation, leaving most of it untouched.
The reservation covers 27 barangays in the municipalities of Jamindan and Tapaz in Capiz province and the municipality of Lambunao in Iloilo province.

. . .

Its Camp Peralta headquarters is 54 kilometers from Roxas City in Capiz; 88 km from Kalibo, Aklan; and 122 km from Iloilo City.

. . .
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 06:01:25 PM by adroth »