Author Topic: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates  (Read 2446 times)

dr demented

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Two AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars, plus associated equipment, to be sold to the Philippines for installation on two of the Gregorio del Pilar class frigates for $25 million USD.

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/philippines-ansps-77-sea-giraffe-3d-air-search-radars

Quote
WASHINGTON, Dec. 14, 2016 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of the Philippines for AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars and related equipment, support, and training. The estimated cost is $25 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on December 12, 2016.

The Government of the Philippines has requested a possible sale of two (2) AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars, support services, including installation services, operator training, system operational testing, and documentation. The total estimated program cost is $25 million.

The Philippines seeks to increase its Maritime Domain Awareness (MDA) capabilities in order to improve monitoring of its vast territorial seas and Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ). An effective Philippine MDA capability strengthens its self-defense capabilities and supports regional stability and U.S. national interests. This sale is consistent with U.S. regional objectives and will further enhance interoperability with the U.S. Navy, build upon a longstanding cooperative effort with the United States, and provide an enhanced capability with a valued partner in a geographic region of critical importance to the U.S. government.

The AN/SPS-77 Air Search Radars will be used to provide an enhanced ability to detect and track air contacts. The radars will be installed on two Hamilton-class cutters acquired through the Excess Defense Articles (EDA) program. The Philippines will have no difficulty absorbing this equipment into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The principal contractor will be VSE and Saab. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any U.S. or contractor representatives to the Philippines. U.S. contractors, under U.S. government oversight, will be in the Philippines for installation and associated support of this new radar on these Philippine Navy ships.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, pm-cpa@state.gov.




kugmo

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 12:32:08 PM »


"So far, USS Independence (LCS 2), USS Coronado (LCS 4), and USS Jackson (LCS 6) have integrated the radar into their systems and five more are in various stages of manufacturing and test. Four more systems are envisaged under the LCS Block Buy contract to meet the arranged deliveries."

http://navaltoday.com/2014/01/16/saabs-sea-giraffe-gets-official-designation-from-us-navy/





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

possible issue hopefully fixed or patched already - report is 2015

pg. 13

"The AN/SPS-77 ASR had multiple outages of short
duration (3 to 30 minutes) that required the crew to
reboot an interface device and was restricted to limited
use because of a failing antenna turntable gearbox
for a period of 3 weeks until it could be repaired by a
SAAB technician.  "

http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2015/pdf/navy/2015lcs.pdf




davemap

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 06:09:23 PM »
SAAB is getting more contracts on the Philippines wise decision to establish a country office.

First the Jacinto Class Upgrade (JV with Propmech), then this Del Pilar Class 3D Air Search Radars...Gripens in future???
 
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 06:11:22 PM by davemap »

gemini1

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 08:54:58 PM »
Anyone has any idea how this radar system would work in conjunction with the new Frigates' NS100 AESA from Thales? I mean will there be any issues with the proposed Tactical Data Link if both ships were to be paired together in a future ops?

r3mu511

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2016, 09:03:04 PM »
finally! :) I remember the old timawa thread from 2011-ish titled "EADS TRS-3D for the PF-15?" which was teeming with discussion on all the possible options for Goyo to replace the stripped sps-40 air search radar...

then there was all the discussion in the old maestrale and frigate threads about maybe having to wait to get an ASR after the maestrale/frigate materialized so as to get common equipment...

there was also discussion on the possible limitations imposed due to the whecs being US EDA thus only US equipment can be used to upgrade them (which apparently now appears to be true since the seagiraffe-amb is a US-typed equipment, and is different from the thales ns106 which will come with PN's HHI-built frigates thus ditching the "commonality" thing)...

fast-forward years of waiting, and back in April this bit of news came out related to the US MSI aid which again gave hope for an ASR set (emphasis mine):

Quote
Defense Secretary Ash Carter says the United States will send about $40 million in military assistance to the Philippines to strengthen intelligence sharing, surveillance and naval patrols.
...
The new aid will include an enhanced information network for classified communications, sensors for patrol vessels and an unmanned aerostat reconnaissance airship.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/04/09/1571122/us-defense-chief-lays-out-new-military-aid-philippines

and at last we get more confirmation for ASRs for the del pilars... though that word "possible" in the DSCA release is a bit of a fly in the 'hope' ointment, lol...

btw, just two sets? can we have one more pls, poor 'ole FF-17 will feel out of place if she doesn't get a new toy as well...

---

@gemini -- iirc, the new frigates will come with link-Y, so the ns106 on them will feed their tracks into link-Y through the tacticos CMS... I don't recall though if the PN whecs have any tadil currently... their old CMS (ie. the USCG SCCS) was link-11 compatible but not sure if they retained their CMS and datalinks when they were turned over... I know they have something to feed into the coast watch system but I don't recall reading anything that this was link-11 based and maybe might just be sat broadband?...

the US MSI aid did mention C4 improvements for the PN whecs so perhaps giving them a tadil will be part of the package and if so then if the new frigs and the whecs are in the same link-11 subnet they can then share their ASR/SSR track data...

so track data flow between two ships ASRs would follow the following route: ASR track manager passes it's track data to the ship CMS, ship CMS uses it's datalink to pass the data to the other ship's datalink, other ship's datalink feeds the data into it's ship's CMS... so for PN frigs and PN whecs:

frig ns106 track manager track data -> frig tacticos CMS -> frig link-Y ----> (some data link on the whec) -> (some CMS on the whec)

and the reverse flow:

whec seagiraffe track manager -> (some CMS on the whec) -> (some datalink on the whec) ---> frig link-Y -> frig tacticos CMS

I'm hoping the US MSI package will include the "some CMS" and "some datalink" parts for the whecs (that is, if they don't already have one)...
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 09:18:25 PM by r3mu511 »

mayk

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2016, 09:17:22 PM »
btw, just two sets? can we have one more pls, poor 'ole FF-17 will feel out of place if she doesn't get a new toy as well...

Or install them on the 2 SSVs enhancing their capability as fleet command ships.

40niner

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2016, 09:23:24 PM »
May I digress with what-if and fantasy -- 

-- if the Sea Giraffe AMB being already a 3D radar, it's possible to eventually incorporate other necessary weapon sub-systems such as anti-air missile and passive defenses.  9LV CMS might be the next module forward.

-- then maybe we can ditch the Mk.92 CAS and upgrade/replace the 76mm Compatto into a newer Strales-base system -- thus addressing both the gun upgrade and CIWS requirement. 

---
I presume that a rudimentary link now exist with the DPCF for MSAS purposes, as they are already reported as a MOS station.  Upgrading it further with wider datalink would be ideal, especially how limited are our observation/patrol assets.  A matter of budget and will, I presumed, considering that the first DPCF is now five years old under PN service.
Obsolete weapons do not deter. You do not base a defence policy on someone else's good intentions.
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40niner

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2016, 09:28:53 PM »
btw, just two sets? can we have one more pls, poor 'ole FF-17 will feel out of place if she doesn't get a new toy as well...

Or install them on the 2 SSVs enhancing their capability as fleet command ships.

I believe that a less-expensive 2D ASR will do with TCLD, since they are actually can't be considered as combatant ship. 3D radars would be needed more for those who can prosecute the contacts still afar out.  What they need, though, would be more C&C equipment and space for flag and battle staff.  Plus, short range defensive weapons.
Obsolete weapons do not deter. You do not base a defence policy on someone else's good intentions.
- Apr 7, 1989 [Baroness Margaret Thatcher, UK PM (1979-90)]

r3mu511

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2016, 09:33:20 PM »
@mayk -- if the money for the purchase is really part of the US MSI package, will it be possible to use the ASR sets on something else rather than the US EDA whecs?

---

@40niner -- I was never able to find anything on what exactly her current coast watch system feed link is @chief, it could be an actual tadil link or it might just be sat broadband since she has sat internet connectivity... if she did retain her USCG SCCS CMS then it's possible she retained her link-11... the US MSI package did specifically mention C4 for the whecs so a datalink might be in the works...

mayk

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2016, 11:01:05 PM »
A matter of budget and will, I presumed, considering that the first DPCF is now five years old under PN service.

OT: but is the FF-15 GDP already upgraded with the Mk 38 mod 2?

40niner

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2016, 02:27:27 AM »
@Mayk -- you mean this incoming order?  :
Quote
http://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/626594
October 29, 2015
...
NAVY
BAE Systems Land and Armaments LP, Armament Systems Division, Louisville, Kentucky, is being awarded a $30,556,246 firm-fixed-price contract for fiscal 2015 production of the MK 38 mod 3 machine gun system (MGS). This contract is to fulfill specified requirements and technical performance requirements for the MK38 mod 3 25mm MGS ordnance alteration and provide additional spare parts. The MGS produced is derived from application of an ordnance alteration to the MK 38 mod 1 25mm MGS. This contract combines purchases for the U.S. government (93.76 percent); and the government of the Philippines (6.24 percent). Work will be performed in Haifa, Israel (67 percent); and Louisville, Kentucky (33 percent), and is expected to complete in April 2017.

As of now, only BRP Ramon Alcaraz has the Mk 38 mod 2's.  Maybe it will be for FF15; but we had expected the previous Mk 38 were for her, but were installed on FF16 instead.  Now, FF17 is on the equation :).
Obsolete weapons do not deter. You do not base a defence policy on someone else's good intentions.
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r3mu511

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2016, 04:10:35 AM »
with this possible seagiraffe sale, @Igs needs to come back from his hibernation/sabbatical, lol...

around 5 years ago in the old "EADS TRS-3D for the PF-15" thread, I posted that since the whec's mk92 CAS has a search antenna which offers a rudimentary 4-elevation band air search capability out to around ~25 nm, that perhaps the PN would just settle on this as their interim ASR for the whec... @Igs reaction to this was (to paraphrase): "No, pls don't say that, it might turn into one of those pansaman-tagal things"...

well, he'll be delighted to know that the "interim" period lasted only 5 years... that is, hopefully if the sale pushes through ;D

LionFlyer

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 07:09:08 AM »
May I digress with what-if and fantasy -- 

-- if the Sea Giraffe AMB being already a 3D radar, it's possible to eventually incorporate other necessary weapon sub-systems such as anti-air missile and passive defenses.  9LV CMS might be the next module forward.

-- then maybe we can ditch the Mk.92 CAS and upgrade/replace the 76mm Compatto into a newer Strales-base system -- thus addressing both the gun upgrade and CIWS requirement. 

---
I presume that a rudimentary link now exist with the DPCF for MSAS purposes, as they are already reported as a MOS station.  Upgrading it further with wider datalink would be ideal, especially how limited are our observation/patrol assets.  A matter of budget and will, I presumed, considering that the first DPCF is now five years old under PN service.

Thailand ordered an Saab upgrade package for their Naresuan class frigates back in 2011. The order was for
2 x Saab Sea Giraffe AMB, 2 x CEROS 200 FCR, 2 x Saab 9LV CMS Mk4 and 2 x TDL for a total cost of MSEK 484, which works out to USD48 million for two ships.[1] Hence a full suite upgrade of the sensors similar to Thailand are in the ballpark range of USD$24 ~ 26 million, excluding any weapons per ship.

Throw in a new A gun, ESM system, a proper ASHM and short range SAM (e.g Simbad-RC), you'll be looking at doubling the cost.

Ref
[1] http://saabgroup.com/media/news-press/news/2011-06/saab-receives-order-from-thailand-regarding-upgrading-of-combat-management-and-fire-control-systems/

mayk

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Re: AN/SPS-77 Sea Giraffe 3D Air Search Radars for the GDP class frigates
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2016, 09:44:27 AM »
@Mayk -- you mean this incoming order?  :

As of now, only BRP Ramon Alcaraz has the Mk 38 mod 2's.  Maybe it will be for FF15; but we had expected the previous Mk 38 were for her, but were installed on FF16 instead.  Now, FF17 is on the equation :).

If the PN opt to install the upcoming order in FF-17 then they'll have all 3 generations in the order that the DPCF arrived. mod 1 at GDP's stern, mod 2 at RA port and starboard, and mod 3 at AB.