Author Topic: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines  (Read 7052 times)

adroth

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2017, 11:46:21 PM »
PGMs? is it an educated guess to assume that the drones would be the platform for those munitions? i cant see them being on the wish list boats lest they want their own pgms raining on their boats.

If these are guided by the Beidou system . . . China could potentially turn off access. Rendering them useless against them.

Chinese precision guided weapons use their own satellite navigation system. If this ever happens . . . could the AFP become a user of the Beidou satellite navigation system?

He specified that the Philippines is asking for precision-guided munitions, not missiles, which are more "sophisticated."

Precision-guided munitions are satellite-guided munitions designed to hit a specific target. Lorenzana said PGMs will "lessen" casualties, compared to the use of unguided bombs.

< Edited >

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Beidou

https://www.liveviewgps.com/blog/gps-main-competitors-galileo-beidou-glonass/

Currently, China’s Beidou satellite navigation system operates with 16 satellites that service the Asia-Pacific region, but current plans include global expansion to 30 satellites by 2020. The current system is accurate to within five meters in trials and has designs on improvements to reach accuracy measurements within centimeters in order to compete with the US GPS, which is the current dominant force in positioning systems worldwide.

The Chinese government sees the success of Beidou as critical for successful, accurate, and independent navigation for military purposes, including the guidance of missiles, warships, and attack aircraft. They are quick to point out, however, that the implications reach far beyond militaristic designs and work for civilian purposes as well.

Beidou offers something no other GPS system does offer though by providing telecommunication services. In addition to providing users with location and time information, Beidou also allows them to communicate with other users through text messages.

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https://www.researchgate.net/figure/236080831_fig1_Figure-1-Ground-tracks-of-the-BeiDou-satellites-and-distribution-of-the-experimental

 Ground tracks of the BeiDou satellites and distribution of the experimental tracking stations



===


China’s version of GPS ‘is now just as accurate’
Developer of Beidou global positioning system says it can match performance of US rival
PUBLISHED : Monday, 26 September, 2016, 12:00am
UPDATED : Monday, 26 September, 2016, 12:00am
COMMENTS: 10


China’s Beidou navigation system is now accurate within centimetres and on par with the US Global Positioning System (GPS), said a scientist who has been developing the technology.

The system could even offer more precise positioning services than its US rival within China, but further support was needed to make GPS users switch to Beidou, navigational-systems expert Xu Ying said at a technology expo in Hong Kong on Sunday.

Beijing has been building the system to make its domestic users, including the military, less dependent on foreign technology. Most Chinese lighthouses, military facilities and fishing boats had been using it since an Asia-Pacific network was completed in 2012, officials said earlier.

< Edited >
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 12:05:23 AM by adroth »

redcomet_m

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2017, 01:07:41 AM »
How does the forum feel about the drones that we are requesting considering the marines already have a system in mind?


LionFlyer

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2017, 06:39:51 AM »
PGMs? is it an educated guess to assume that the drones would be the platform for those munitions? i cant see them being on the wish list boats lest they want their own pgms raining on their boats.

Could be these. PGMs doesn't necessarily mean air-to-ground.

http://www.deagel.com/library/Chinese-GP-1-Krasnopol-M2-guided-155mm-projectile_m02013110100032.aspx

Juramentado

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2017, 10:05:14 AM »
I haven't found any good sources that indicate GJV289A is MIL-STD-1553 compatible.

That being said, one way this could work is if PRC "copied" Raytheon's WiPak. Then the various air-droppable PGMs can be used theoretically on the Broncos.

adroth

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2017, 05:59:39 PM »
Would be interesting if the DND acquires the rights to produce these locally. THAT would make this experiment worthwhile.

SG99n1

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2017, 08:23:35 PM »
http://www.norinco.com/GB/61/76/81/index.html

Norinco website touts their air-launched weapons can be mounted on both eastern and western fighters..
Would they need some modifications to be performed to our existing platforms?
I say jump! You say how high?

LionFlyer

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2017, 07:53:22 AM »
http://www.norinco.com/GB/61/76/81/index.html

Norinco website touts their air-launched weapons can be mounted on both eastern and western fighters..
Would they need some modifications to be performed to our existing platforms?

1. Physical
The lugs on Chinese PGMs need to be able to fit the existing hardpoints/ejector racks on the FA-50s

2. Electrical/Data Comm
Need to support MIL-STD-1760 (704/1553)

3. Stores Management System
The stores management system is the heart of combat aircraft's weapon system, because it interfaces the sensors to the munitions. The SMS must be updated to "recognize" that munition that's hanging off the hardpoints. The FA-50 reportedly uses a system from Dynamic Controls Hamilton Sundstrand.

1. and 2. should be well within the capabilities of the Chinese. 3. is sketchy at best because it requires the OEM's support. Without it, it will have to be an unauthorized modification (possibly by spoofing the SMS into thinking that it's an MK82?) KAI still needs to approve and validate it at some point. Sticking bits on an airplane will have an effect on the flight characteristics.

All said and done, it's possible. But whether it's a good idea is another matter. Pakistan have been using Chinese platforms (F-7PGs, JF-17) and their munitions. But I don't see them integrating it on their F-16s and F1s, which uses exclusively Western munitions.

The other way would be what Juramentado had suggested.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 07:57:52 AM by LionFlyer »

mamiyapis

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2017, 08:21:18 AM »
I haven't found any good sources that indicate GJV289A is MIL-STD-1553 compatible.

That being said, one way this could work is if PRC "copied" Raytheon's WiPak. Then the various air-droppable PGMs can be used theoretically on the Broncos.

We have to remember that the PLA and Beijing had access to US weapons technology right up until 1986, which means a great deal of information they were allowed access to before Tiananmen is fairly relevant and current.

They had hands in Improved TOW, US artillery shell tech, 70's US avionics tech(aborted attempt at upgrading their aircraft), and even sonar technology from the same time frame. US improvements to weaponry have been fairly incremental and more evolutionary than transformative.

There are also Chengdu J/F-7s on the export market that have been fitted for French Magic R550 missiles from the factory. Plus the Chinese have been chummy with the Pakistanis who have access to birds like the F16. Not to mention the integration and license production of Israeli weapons and avionics for their fighter aircraft.

We also need to remember the Chinese have almost everything on the F35, which would probably include technical specifications for weapons and things like MIL-STD-1553.

TL:DR - The Chinese probably have a good idea of how to work with MILSTD 1553


https://www.google.com.ph/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.discs.dsca.mil/Pubs/Indexes/Vol%25208-1/Dumbaugh%2520%26%2520Grimmett.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiasaqLqYjSAhWHE5QKHSXwA6IQFggkMAE&usg=AFQjCNGJxSlHhuO5Z4uxnn0gTcPas5ClcA&sig2=W35aW6-JF5tla1ZC0Oi8uQ
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 09:56:10 AM by mamiyapis »

LionFlyer

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2017, 05:45:38 PM »
Quote

TL:DR - The Chinese probably have a good idea of how to work with MILSTD 1553
Ah, yes the Chinese knows the Mil Std because it is not a big secret to begin with! For something that's been around more than 40 years and is fairly common, no subterfuge is required.


mamiyapis

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2017, 08:39:09 PM »
Quote

TL:DR - The Chinese probably have a good idea of how to work with MILSTD 1553
Ah, yes the Chinese knows the Mil Std because it is not a big secret to begin with! For something that's been around more than 40 years and is fairly common, no subterfuge is required.

Exactly. Was pointing out it wouldn't be hard given all their exposure to Western weapons thru various means.

It wouldn't be difficult for them to engineer some kind of work-around. But if they bought drones and paired the Chinese PGMs with them, then that might be a workable solution.

adroth

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2017, 12:18:52 AM »
DND chief reveals Chinese firms’ offer of defense equipment to PH
Michelle Ong, ABS-CBN News

Posted at May 15 2017 12:30 AM | Updated as of May 15 2017 09:00 AM

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/05/14/17/dnd-chief-reveals-chinese-firms-offer-of-defense-equipment-to-ph

BEIJING - Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said on Sunday some Chinese companies are set to sign, on the final day of China’s Belt and Road forum, a letter expressing their intent to supply an array of defense equipment to the Philippines.

A US$500-million loan from the Chinese government will also be on standby, which the Philippines can draw from for funding once the modernization fund is fully used up.
 
Lorenzana, however, clarified that a technical team will first have to inspect the equipment being offered, while the Department of National Defense (DND) will have to consult with the Philippine Navy, Army and Air Force about their defense requirements.

 “We’re not saying we will buy or not. But if we need anything from the Chinese defense industry, we will procure using the loans they will offer us," he said.

Lorenzana also cited a $14-million (P700-million) China grant from December, which will be used to purchase 4 fast boats, 200 sniper rifles, and several hundreds of RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades] with ammunitions that will be delivered by the end of this year.

adroth

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2017, 02:55:05 AM »
BEIJING - Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said on Sunday some Chinese companies are set to sign, on the final day of China’s Belt and Road forum, a letter expressing their intent to supply an array of defense equipment to the Philippines.

China is going all out with this marketing campaign.

The good: http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=1582.0

The bad: http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=1583.0

The brochure

NORINCO Releases the Belt and Road Brochure

http://www.norinco.com.cn/n/2015/1020/c62-503.html

NORINCO recently released the publicity brochure titled NORINCO Marching on the Belt and Road.

The brochure comprehensively illustrates NORINCO's preemptive advantages and remarkable achievements along the Belt and Road as a pioneer and leader of Chinese military trade, an important team to implement China’s Going Global strategy, and a leading force in the internationalization of the weapon industry.

 

The brochure includes new materials on the basis of the Belt and Road achievement exhibition, incorporates NORINCO's achievements in "five sectors and global coordination", and covers the progress on major projects, corporate culture and employee development. Consisting of seven chapters - caring leadership, backbone of defense cooperation, oil and gas industry pioneer, emerging force of mining development, builder of exemplary project, pioneer of civilian product cooperation and practitioner of social responsibilities, the brochure presents an all-round picture of NORINCO's outstanding contributions to the implementation of the Belt and Road Initiative and its accomplishments in branding, technological and business model innovation, and capability enhancement for international operation. Distributed among NORINCO's domestic and foreign partners as well as important customers, the brochure has taken positive effects.

firstknight

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2017, 08:07:09 PM »
Sanctioned China firm eyes AFP deal
By Christina Mendez (The Philippine Star) | Updated May 16, 2017 - 12:00am

BEIJING – A state-owned Chinese firm that was sanctioned by the United States for allegedly supplying weapons of mass destruction to Iran has expressed its intention to supply military hardware to the Philippines to boost the country’s defense capability.

Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana announced yesterday that state-owned conglomerate China Poly Group Corp. has expressed intent to supply arms and other equipment to the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP).

The offer casts a shadow of concern raised by China’s militarization in the South China Sea, which also comes on the heels of President Duterte’s pivot to China.

Duterte received officials of the China Poly Group Corp. and Poly Technologies Inc. who paid a courtesy call on him at the Grand Hyatt Hotel here last Sunday.

“It’s not yet a document. It’s a letter of intent to deal with them because they’re offering us a lot, a wide array of defense equipment,” said Lorenzana, who was present during the Poly Technologies’ call.

This is different from the $14-million grant and another $500-million loan offered by Beijing last year during Duterte’s visit here.

more here: http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2017/05/16/1700331/sanctioned-china-firm-eyes-afp-deal

adroth

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2017, 08:47:26 PM »
DND chief signs letter of intent with Chinese arm exporter Poly Group Corporation
May 15, 2017

http://www.pna.gov.ph/index.php/articles/987837

MANILA, May 15 -- The Department of National Defense (DND), representing the Philippine government, has signed Monday a letter of intent (LOI) for the purchase of weapons and other equipment from China's arms exporter, Poly Group Corporation.

This was confirmed by DND Secretary Delfin Lorenzana saying this is separate from the USD14 million grant given to the Philippines last year.

"Yes, I signed a letter of intent with Poly Group. No specific equipment or arms yet. We'll let the services decide what they went to acquire from China. This is not the USD14 million grant. It is a separate deal," he said.

Signing on behalf of Poly Group Group was it's president, Zhengao Zhang.

When asked whether it is in the interest of the Philippines to acquire Chinese-made weapons when most of the equipment of the Armed Forces of the Philippines is Western made, the DND chief said it will not be a problem.

"Weapons (nowadays) are all similar. They are used the same way. They can also be tailor-made for our specific requirements. Doctrine and training is peculiar to an Army so it won't be affected," he said. (Priam F. Nepomuceno/PNA)

adroth

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Re: Retitled: China offers arms to the Philippines
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2017, 06:19:01 PM »
Hear hear

Lacson wants $500-M arms loan from China used for research
ABS-CBN News
Posted at May 16 2017 07:04 PM

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/05/16/17/lacson-wants-500-m-arms-loan-from-china-used-for-research

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That can go a long way to getting the GA further along in its projects

http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=597.0