Author Topic: If the MILF/MNLF can make their own rockets, why can't the PH government?  (Read 16535 times)

adroth

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Whenever the AFP faced secessionist groups in Mindanao, they invariably faced these locally-made rockets. Often referred to in the media as RPGs, these are actually copies of the Chinese B-40 anti-personnel rockets.



As per Timawans with access to combat field reports, quality control for these weapons was poor. With many failing to detonate after they had been fired.

Nevertheless, they were sufficiently effective to make the AFP want to have their own equivalent . . . in addition to the automatic grenade launchers and machine guns that were already on the modernization list.

..

Photo sources:

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/member-of-the-southern-philippine-rebel-group-the-moro-islamic-front-picture-id90965624
http://media.themalaymailonline.com/images/sized/ez/0227-milf-Moro-Islamic-Liberation-Front-afp_620_413_100.jpg

If an irregular force can muster the resources and fabrication capability to make their own rockets, why can't the AFP with all its resources and with the plethora or research and development centers?

Scores of these rockets and rocket launchers have been captured over the years. As shown in the surrender event below. Surely there must be enough samples that could be reverse engineered and even improved upon.



From: http://www.voanews.com/a/philippines-milf-hands-over-weapons-retires-fighters/2824263.html

Hence the following proposal

SRDP: Technology transfer for RPG-7 launchers and current generation RPG warheads

The Philippine Army already intended to acquire RPG-7 launcher from Airtronic as part of an FMS deal. The only reason this plan has not yet borne fruit is because of issues with the supplier. The AFP wants the weapon. The US is able to supply it, and therefore a line item in its logistical system.



Why not ask the Russians for the technology to build it ourselves along with the next generation warheads that the Chinese have not copied yet?



Photo from: http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/russia/weapons/rpg-7/rpg-7_ammunition_Russia_russian_001.jpg

For the vanilla warheads, we could potentially lean on our allies for support. Like the one below. But if we make the specialized warheads ourselves, then we'd be self-sufficient and can actually help our allies, for a change, if they need them.



« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 06:07:01 PM by adroth »

adroth

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Re: If the MILF/MNLF can make their own rockets, why can't the PH government?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2016, 06:06:18 PM »
RPG-7 flight profile as per US Army documentation



====

https://youtu.be/P439jWJTQ-0

Published on Oct 31, 2014
Watch RPG-7's in slow motion


https://youtu.be/7NmZjNJIQ8Q

Published on Jun 13, 2016
American soldiers to learn how to use the RPG-7 anti-tank grenade launcher from the Polish Army and Bulgarian Army.


https://youtu.be/y6KdHfP_0x8

Uploaded on Oct 6, 2011
Mythbusters RPG 101. Watch this little explanation of the RPG and a very cool demonstraton against Tory's trailer.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 06:13:06 PM by adroth »

adroth

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Re: If the MILF/MNLF can make their own rockets, why can't the PH government?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2016, 06:20:58 PM »
From: http://science.howstuffworks.com/rpg3.htm

Firing an RPG-7

The RPG operator or an artillary assistant takes a propelling charge (booster, in image below) and screws it onto the end of a warhead. Basically, this is a stabilizing pipe that has four stabilizing fins that are folded around it with two additional fins at its rear end. A cardboard container encases the back end of the stabilizing pipe. Inside the cardboard container, a squib of nitroglycerin powder is wrapped around the stabilizing pipe and a primer or charge of gunpowder is stuffed into the end of the stabilizing pipe.

The RPG operator or artillary person then takes this assembled artillery and loads it into the front end of the RPG launcher so that it lines up with the trigger mechanism.

After the RPG operator pulls the trigger, this is what happens:

The force of the built-up gases throws the grenade out of the tube at approximately 384 feet per second (117 meters per second). The abrupt acceleration of the grenade leaving the launcher triggers a piezoelectric fuze that ignites the primer (pyro-retarding gunpowder mixture). This then ignites the squib of nitro, thereby activating the rocket propulsion system (sustainer motor) to carry the grenade the rest of its trajectory.

A socket in the breach block alleviates recoil during firing. The exhaust gases exit to the rear of the launcher unit and the operator is free to immediately reload the weapon. In practice, however, no RPG operator would ever remain stationary and spend the time to reload; the launching flash and whitish blue-gray smoke provides a clear indication to the enemy of the RPG launcher's location. An effective, surviving RPG operator is one who quickly changes position and gets under cover.


adroth

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Re: If the MILF/MNLF can make their own rockets, why can't the PH government?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2016, 07:25:16 PM »
https://www.dvidshub.net/video/123628/sgt-christopher-smalls-interview

Interview with Sgt. Christopher Smalls, an instructor at the Joint Sustainment Academy Southwest aboard Camp Leatherneck, Helmand province, Afghanistan. Smalls trained Afghan National Army Soldiers to fire a rocket propelled grenade during the Small Arms Weapons Instructor Course at JSAS. Smalls is a native of St. Augistine, Fl. Also available in High Definition.




https://www.dvidshub.net/video/123617/cpl-ryan-mccarthy-rpg-interview

Interview of Cpl. Ryan McCarthy a Joint Sustainment Academy Southwest instructor, a native of Bayonne, N.J. talks about the (RPGs) during a live-fire operational training shoot at JSAS, Camp Leatherneck, Helmand province, Aug. 24. Also available in High Definition.




https://www.dvidshub.net/video/124335/marines-train-afghan-soldiers-shoot-rpgs

Package of Marines at Joint Sustainment Academy Southwest training Afghan National Army Soldiers to shoot rocket propelled grenade launchers aboard Camp Leatherneck, Afghanistan. Produced by Petty Officer Jonathan David Chandler. Also available in high definition.



https://www.dvidshub.net/video/124334/afghan-soldiers-train-with-rpgs-multimedia

Package of students at the Joint Sustainment Academy Southwest training on firing rocket propelled grenades aboard Camp Leatherneck. Produced by Marine Cpl. Bryan Nygaard. Also available in high definition.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 07:30:01 PM by adroth »

adroth

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Re: If the MILF/MNLF can make their own rockets, why can't the PH government?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2016, 10:41:14 AM »
How the RPG-7 works

https://youtu.be/7KOcuzHJSAE

adroth

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Re: If the MILF/MNLF can make their own rockets, why can't the PH government?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2017, 06:55:02 AM »
From the show "Ultimate Weapons"

https://youtu.be/dZnBzfhSmUU

adroth

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Here's an interesting report

Lorenzana also cited a $14-million (P700-million) China grant from December, which will be used to purchase 4 fast boats, 200 sniper rifles, and several hundreds of RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades] with ammunitions that will be delivered by the end of this year.

Wouldn't it make sense to use this credit facility to acquire the capability to manufacture RPGs locally?

====

The current Chinese equivalent to the Russian RPG-7 is the Norinco Type 69 RPG. Something to think about

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=849

https://youtu.be/Rl6-ZAY15cE
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 05:23:43 PM by adroth »

adroth

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FINALLY. The GA is getting its hands on the RPGs that were captured from the MILF.

Whenever the AFP faced secessionist groups in Mindanao, they invariably faced these locally-made rockets. Often referred to in the media as RPGs, these are actually copies of the Chinese B-40 anti-personnel rockets.



From the director. Shared with permission.

Quote
We have been planning to start an R&D for the RPG. Already have a captured chinese version launcher donated by the Marines. We intend to invite the Army RDC for cooperation in this effort. We will send 2 engineers to Long mountain in Las Vegas to undergo training next year for armorers trng for RPG to give us basic understanding of its inner workings.

Juramentado

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He must mean some other outfit. Long Mountain Outfitters, which did provide some foreign government and agency training, went belly up somewhere in 2014-2015. Dan and Deb Shea, the owners, restarted their business as "Gun Mountain" but don't appear to have a compelling interest in sales and service of "Destructive Weapons and AOW" of which RPGs would qualify as.

adroth

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Dan and Deb Shea, the owners, restarted their business as "Gun Mountain" but don't appear to have a compelling interest in sales and service of "Destructive Weapons and AOW" of which RPGs would qualify as.

Passing questions up the chain.

Note that the focal point of the GA's interest is in armorer's training. Their current site place holder simply indicates that they do not have any destructive weapons in stock at this time . . . that does not mean that they will not provide training services if such equipment can be obtained through other means.

They previously described their services as follows:

http://dangerousmagazine.com/2013/01/25/inside-the-vaults-of-long-mountain-outfitters/

Quote
In the late 1970s, Shea founded Long Mountain Outfitters (LMO) in New Hampshire. He later moved the business to Henderson, Nevada, which is part of the greater Las Vegas area, where it’s been operating for over ten years. The company has since become the gold standard for foreign weapons training and holds a GS schedule contract for armorer-operator training on all US and foreign small arms.

“We’re gun guys,” Shea says. “That’s what we’re good at, and that’s what we stick to.”

The armorer classes are the company’s bread and butter. It’s hosted and trained everybody from Naval Special Warfare personnel to law enforcement officers. Blackwater Worldwide operators were frequent students at LMO as have been many other contractors and US Allies.

The armorer classes typically involve 12 to 16 students and are held at the LMO facility. When I visited, a dozen or so students were assembling and disassembling machine guns in what looked like a high-school science lab with a vast array of weapons on the walls around them.

adroth

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We have been planning to start an R&D for the RPG. Already have a captured chinese version launcher donated by the Marines. We intend to invite the Army RDC for cooperation in this effort. We will send 2 engineers to Long mountain in Las Vegas to undergo training next year for armorers trng for RPG to give us basic understanding of its inner workings.

The GA's history with Long Mountain

https://www.facebook.com/pg/government.arsenal/photos/?tab=album&album_id=687583544686232


LionFlyer

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The Islamic State actually makes their own portable rockets. In fact, I did a double take because the of quality. It actually reminds me of the Armbrust in layout.

http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/600235.html





adroth

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RPG captured by Philippine Marines Corp during the 2000 year campaign in Mindanao. In GA custody

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211853009533550&set=a.3382375351062.148389.1019812553&type=3&theater