Author Topic: AIR REFUELING FOR MRF , FA-50, C-130, C-295 AND BLACKHAWK HELICOPTERS  (Read 2483 times)

eagle from davao

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PURPOSE: Phil air force must have air refueling capability to extend the flight time of future MRF, FA-50, C-295 transport , Black hawk heli, and other aircrafts.

PAF have limited assets, one way to increase its operating capability is to extend their range or flight time by air-refueling. MRF and FA-50 and black hawk helicopters can stay longer, cover more area, extend their strike range and more . FA-50 can maximize  bomb loads and arsenal without extra tanks.

POSSIBLE AIR REFUELING AIRCRAFT.
1] KC-130J - 1 UNIT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_KC-130
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/c130/kc-130j-tanker.html
https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kc-130j-tanker/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdiklB72NSI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTLc7OgXxTg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKDPJTkQCQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TReDWGRSP88

OR -2] C-295 WITH REMOVABLE REFUELING KIT. - 2 UNITS

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/stories/Air-to-air-refuelling-broadens-the-C295-tactical-airlifters-operational-versatility.html
https://www.airbus.com/defence/c295.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqbs9AF2wFM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EhUsytP1Is
https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/c295/

1st PHASE: PAF will purchase 2 refueling kit for C-295 air for FA-50 and black hawk
2nd PHASE: PAF will add one-KC-130J for new MRF, FA-50 and more black hawk
3rd PHASE: PAF add one more KC-130J to service more MRFs

One thing i cant confirm ,if our FA-50's have air-refueling probe. Looking on the new black hawks, need to add air-refueling boom pipe , maybe the next purchase , air-refueling capability must be added for black  hawks.

adroth

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Adding refueling systems for the BlackHawk would adversely affect its ability to land in certain types of forest terrain because of the expanded foot print.

As for the FA-50, here is an older discussion

Probe-and-drogue

KAI has conducted studies about adding this capability to the basic T-50 platform. These have largely been a theoretical capability. It is unclear what systems would have to be removed from the FA-50PH -- if any -- to accommodate the additional equipment. The following photos and diagrams are c/o KAI.

The key advantage of this option is interoperability with many of our allies, which prefer this method for its simplicity, as well as the US Navy. Although the C-130Ts in PAF service currently lack this capability, all it would require would be the re-addition of the equipment that these "T" versions originally had. The disadvantage is that it is a purely theoretical capability at this point and would require development assistance from KAI and any other air force that would need it.











LionFlyer

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For the FA-50, Cobham is already contracted at the end of last year to design and qualify an airborne refueling system, so I expect this to be an option that is available within the next two years to FA-50 customers.

Quote
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20201202005371/en/Cobham-Mission-Systems-to-Provide-Air-Refuelling-Probe-for-KAI-FA-50

Cobham Mission Systems to Provide Air Refuelling Probe for KAI FA-50
Global leader in air refuelling systems delivering bespoke probe solutions tailored to individual customer requirements

December 02, 2020 03:00 AM Eastern Standard Time
WIMBORNE, United Kingdom--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Cobham Mission Systems, the world leader in air refuelling probe solutions, announced today it has been awarded a prime contract from Korea Aerospace Industries Ltd. (KAI) to deliver an air refuelling probe solution for its FA-50 advanced jet aircraft. Under this contract, Cobham Mission Systems will design, develop and qualify a telescopic probe solution, which the company anticipates will lead to future serial production requirements for KAI’s customer base.

Equipping the FA-50 with an air refuelling probe will enable air refuelling from hose and drogue tankers, enhancing the aircrafts operational flexibility and interoperability.

“Having supported KAI for over a decade, we are delighted to deliver this new operational capability for their impressive FA-50 jet,” said Russell Bailey, vice president air-to-air refuelling for Cobham Mission Systems in the UK.

“Recognised for providing leading edge and optimised solutions to meet the air refuelling capability requirements of Air Forces around the world, Cobham Mission Systems is uniquely placed to deliver this project. Our dedicated team looks forward to collaborating closely with KAI to create a bespoke probe design for the FA-50 that will deliver an enhanced operational capability to end users.”

Cobham Mission Systems is globally recognised as the market leader for bespoke air-to-air refuelling solutions for aircraft tanker and military aircraft. At the leading edge of probe design and manufacture, the company has a deep understanding of complex air-to-air refuelling probe requirements and specialist expertise from probe design, development and qualification to serial production and in-service support.

For more information on Cobham Mission Systems air refuelling probe solutions, visit www.cobhammissionsystems.com.

About Cobham Mission Systems

As the world’s leading supplier of critical control solutions, Cobham Mission Systems helps customers increase the safety and mission capabilities of personnel and equipment in extreme environments. Proven and trusted solutions include air-to-air refuelling, fuel tank inerting, life support, space propulsion, weapons carriage and missile actuation that enable customers to achieve mission success. www.cobhammissionsystems.com



Contacts
Media Contact:
On behalf of Cobham Mission Systems
Joyce Bosc
(301) 717-9529
JBosc@Boscobel.com


LionFlyer

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Re eagle from davao, your plans does not consider the type of refueling options. If the F-16V was eventually chosen, the default refueling option is the flying boom. The CART/ART system's development was never fully qualified and does not exist today as an option.

All F-16 operators uses the flying boom system or just go without airborne refueling entirely. If you choose the Saab Gripen, then probe-and-drogue would be possible.

For the FA-50, it would also be contingent on airborne refueling kit being available for back fitting as well as actually buying them. Knowing the glacial pace of procurement, I don't see this capability appearing on PAF's FA-50 in the next few years.

We will need the next few years to confirm PAF's fleet composition (MRF) as well as plans to back fit the FA-50 / Blackhawks with the capability. Otherwise, it is too premature.


« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 05:44:33 PM by LionFlyer »

adroth

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Probe and drogue option for F-16s

https://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article4163.html

LionFlyer

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IAI Bedek had experimented with fixed probes for the F-16, but IAF never adopted it and instead went for the flying boom. Other than India a decade ago, there is no customer demand for it since.

If you wanted more range, go for the conformal tanks, or drop tanks. If you need more range on top of those, then go with the default option (flying boom)

LionFlyer

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One final point about refueling the Blackhawk. It is a niche capability, used on Blackhawk platforms means for special ops and/or over the water missions.

The only reason why this is required are for missions where there exceptionally long ranges/durations and there are no friendly forward operating bases for refueling. For the typical troop transport mission, most helis would be forward deployed to their mission areas. The US, PAF and most nations used their helis perfectly well for almost all their missions without the need for airborne refueling.

The "tanker-in-the-sky" is an exceptional cost in itself and unless there are sufficient sortie rates or a high value mission, they won't deploy. Re Singapore's recent deployment to Guam was one example where the capability was useful. It is the mission/CONOPS and platforms that will drive the need for this capability, and right now, there is an absence of those requirements.

eagle from davao

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I share one true combat mission in iran-iraq war. the iran air force at that time have air refueling capability and still have well trained pilots and fighter bombers . they able to bombed and destroy almost two thirds of iraqi air force on the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyc5z6SHQLM&lc=z22tibiwqzfrd5eh304t1aokgv2qxl34zb03rc04ikagbk0h00410

it was a movie but it shows how air refueling capabilities was a game changer.

Our air force asset are few . Giving it an air refueling capabilities, it can double or triple the strike range and its loitering time ,depending on its mission. Our possible adversary have 100:1 advantage in their favor. We cant catch up on them in numbers but we can have an edge in keeping our future MRF more loitering time ,carry more ordnance and longer strike range . We can hit them from the sides they dont expect.

Airbus can now install removable air refueling capability for its C-295 which we have . We can send SOCOM operators far even to spratly's in single haul. We can use black hawks  to drop troops and supply BRP Sierra Madre.

there are many  possibilities.

eagle from davao

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I realized this capability is pre-mature. I wrongly assumed that FA-50 have air -refueling probe already and the black hawks second purchase can install refueling boom. I thank LionFlyer and Adroth for their thoughts. I guess this trend will be put into shelve. Once MRF is final , this can be relevant again.