Author Topic: Damage Control training @ PN  (Read 3533 times)

jetmech

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2018, 11:28:51 PM »
  Who trains who? Is there a school house (even for basic firefighting) for incoming recruits? I have seen sailors with DC rating (MOS) on the watch standing boards of some ships posted in the forum. Are they real Damage Control specialists? If yes, that means they have advanced & specialized DC training? Is there a formal school for them, complete with facilities that really gets flooded or set on fire and taught how to maintain & repair DC equipment, like water pumps, toilets, showers & CHT (Collection, Holding & Transfer tank/s). When will those sailors from the 3 Del Pilar class rotate out of sea duty and encouraged to be instructors? There should be at least 2-3 school house locations to provide refresher training (also incentive for drawing instructors to apply due to location).
  My training and exposure to DC was being ship's company (not squadron, different firefighting approach, still the same science). Also, each ship has a Damage Control Training Team (DCTT) whose main purpose to ensure all drill scenarios are simulated like the real one. It is also the one graded by inspection teams from Type Commanders (TYCOMs). If you fail, the ship is not ready. I was "volunteered" to join and had to learn it from advanced shipboard firefighting course (know how to plug & brace) since I'm supposed to train the same qualified people manning the repair lockers. Kind of embarrassing if I was clueless when I write-up a drill scenario. Not claiming to be an expert, but I learned the importance of Damage Control. PN still fortunate, they don't have to worry about CBR (Chemical Biological Radiological) scenarios right now.

   

girder

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2018, 12:28:44 AM »
This thread reminded me of this old paper circa-2001:

Araojo, A. (2001). Towards a responsive education and skills training program in preparation for PN modernization. AFP Joint Command and Staff College.

Of particular note from the executive summary:
Quote
Initial findings of the study during the documentary analysis and interviews, revealed that indeed, the existing PN Education and Training System was the main cause of the progressive deterioration of PN personnel’s knowledge and skills. Training programs and curriculum being conducted at the main training institutions of the Philippine Navy were still the same as what the author had taken twenty-six (26) years ago when he joined the Navy. Worst, many of the training aids and facilities were already gone and never replaced nor modernized. As a result, the knowledge and skills gained by both the officers and enlisted men were designed only to operate and maintain World War II vintage navy ships.

...which in turn also reminded of a particular anecdote on the importance of institutional memory.

mayk

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2018, 02:35:29 AM »
Skills gaps were also noticed in another discussion about personnel protection equipment for PN gun crews.

There is a 16 yr gap between the BRP Pangasinan pic and BRP Malvar pic. I think there is a matter of crew pride as well. The BRP Miguel Malvar was the most decorated ship during that "era".

For the PN, in the last 3 decades, the 90's would probably had the most acquisitions with the Bacolod, Aguinaldo, Tomas Batillo, Conrado Yap, Andrada, Jacinto classes plus the activation of the WWII ships. The 2000's were the worst with just the GMA and Point classes. The 2010's is almost ending with almost the same number as the 90's, LPDs, DCPFs, LCU, LCH, MPACs, Oilers and a research ship and hopefully a Korean corvette.

Sorry for the OT. But one of my pet peeves is why the PN can't match the 90's acquisition? Is it because of RA9184? The PN acquired 20+ Andrada class ships in a decade, the MPAC (which the PN requires twice the number) is trickling in comparison.

I just hope that the PN's and AFP's death spiral in general bottomed out at the pre Hamilton and FA50 yrs.

mayk

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2018, 04:40:39 AM »
I just had a thought. Would the low acquisition during the 2000's be due to the effects of the '97 Asian financial crisis? The currency lost value do much that modernization stopped. Even the F-5's were retired.

Would the 2008 sub prime crisis also the cause for the slow acquisition during the early part of 2010's?

adroth

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2018, 07:24:30 AM »
Sorry for the OT. But one of my pet peeves is why the PN can't match the 90's acquisition? Is it because of RA9184? The PN acquired 20+ Andrada class ships in a decade, the MPAC (which the PN requires twice the number) is trickling in comparison.

In the 90s, the US was paying for everything by way of rent for the US bases. The last of the rental camein by way of the two LSVs. Before then, the PN and PAF didn’t go to Malacanang for money. They went to the Pentagon. Both services suffered the most when the bases closed.

Today, we have to pay for pretty much everything ourselves. The two Tarlac class SSVs and the coming frigates, for example, are all paid for with Multi-Year Obligational Authorities (MYOA), so we spread out payments for them across multiple annual budgets. We didn’t figure out how to do those till 2010.

mayk

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2018, 06:21:32 PM »
We didn’t figure out how to do those till 2010.

That makes the 2000's a lost decade in terms of AFP modernization.

mayk

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2018, 06:28:10 PM »
In the 90s, the US was paying for everything by way of rent for the US bases.

Oh yeah I forgot about this one. The US was even paying for the maintenance of the WWII ships. Machinery parts were ordered stateside and those out pf production were fabricated stateside. PN ships would sail to Guam for scheduled downtime and have some R&R as well. And when this support stream stopped, the retrofitting of whats readily available began, residential equipment like the window and split type air conditioning, washing machines, generator sets made its way to PN ships.

adroth

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2018, 09:20:33 PM »
Feedback coming back from various PN sources.

On the matter of DC training

Quote
"Yes, DC is part of the shipboard module of all shipboarding courses. It's all standard theoreticals and practicals while in school. It only changes when one gets his/her assigned bow number. To each ship it's own...

On the matter of the disparity in how the Del Pilar crews conducted DC drills.

Quote
. . . for the damage control training and provisions all i can say is the del pilar class ships have inherited how the USN/USCG conducts dmage control to include their provisions..

as for the LDs they are not so equipped just like the del pilar class... this includes fire firghting ensembles and suit...

onboard del pilar ships... all personnel to be posted on that ship will undergo DC training for one week... that includes all of them.. and its being conducted by the ships DCTT - Dmg Control Training Team this includes training on fire fighting donning of SCABAs EEDBs pip patching shoring and everything which i think the LDs doesnt have

adroth

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2018, 09:21:58 PM »
We didn’t figure out how to do those till 2010.

That makes the 2000's a lost decade in terms of AFP modernization.

Not really. The Tagbanua and the MPACs were all acquired prior to 2010. Prior to 2010, the AFP was limited to what could be funded in a single annual budget.

jetmech

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2018, 10:32:04 PM »
Feedback coming back from various PN sources.

On the matter of DC training

Quote
"Yes, DC is part of the shipboard module of all shipboarding courses. It's all standard theoreticals and practicals while in school. It only changes when one gets his/her assigned bow number. To each ship it's own...

On the matter of the disparity in how the Del Pilar crews conducted DC drills.

Quote
. . . for the damage control training and provisions all i can say is the del pilar class ships have inherited how the USN/USCG conducts dmage control to include their provisions..

as for the LDs they are not so equipped just like the del pilar class... this includes fire firghting ensembles and suit...

onboard del pilar ships... all personnel to be posted on that ship will undergo DC training for one week... that includes all of them.. and its being conducted by the ships DCTT - Dmg Control Training Team this includes training on fire fighting donning of SCABAs EEDBs pip patching shoring and everything which i think the LDs doesnt have

....still begs the question, why the disparity in training & equipment? They had their chance to include it on the budget for the 2 amphibious ships, now the only reason is because the equipment 7 training were inherited from the USCG? Pointing fingers again. Like what I mentioned, 7 years gone by & still crawling not able to feed itself. 

jetmech

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2018, 09:18:39 PM »
  First Korean made frigate by 2020.  Expecting the plank owners who will need to undergo systems training will start formal training late 2018 to early 2019. Hopefully, it will include sailing with similar class Korean frigates. May not have the same combat systems but the layout will be the same (1st deck & below most likely and the helipad/ hangar). It will be important to learn how the Korean personnel approach different casualty drills (casualty=human or machinery in DC terms). While over there, maybe source out how much is it to buy Korean made firefighting ensemble and other equipment, maybe cheaper.

   For a trained crew with regards to Damage Control, it took 45 days to learn different casualty drills and pass an acceptance inspection we're safe to sail. I'm referring to a crew swap of 2 different class ships. From an LHD to an LHA and vise versa. Cross training was important since the ships were completely different. Flammable/ explosive store rooms, crew compartments (ours went from 2nd deck to 01 level), entry to #1 & 2 MMR amidship, location of AFFF (foam) stations etc. After being allowed to sail, training/ inspection at sea again for the combat systems / general quarters and casualty drills all over again. For old folks, like REFTRA! Less stressful than INSURV.

dr demented

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2018, 12:23:41 PM »
The article and the attached video discusses damage control and maintenance aboard the USCGC Active, a Reliance class WMEC that is about the same vintage as the Gregorio del Pilar class frigates.

http://coastguard.dodlive.mil/2018/06/damage-control-not-damage-repair-keeping-an-aging-cutter-active/

Quote
Damage control, not damage repair – keeping an aging cutter active

Posted by Diana Sherbs, Tuesday, June 26, 2018
Written by Petty Officer 1st Class Michael De Nyse

On July 20, 1969, Neil Armstrong became the first human to step onto the lunar surface of the moon; over 48 years later, the U.S. Coast Guard is still using the same technology to conduct modern day operations.

The Coast Guard Cutter Active, a 210-foot medium endurance Reliance-class cutter homeported in Port Angeles, Washington, is the eighth Coast Guard vessel to bear the name and was officially commissioned Sept. 1, 1966—almost three years before Neil Armstrong stepped foot on the moon.

Petty Officer 1st Class Victor Arcelay, a damage controlman and one of the 75 crew members aboard Active, has the daunting task of keeping the Active, well — active.

“Imagine you have a ship that is 52, 53-years-old, you have to deal with systems that are about the same age,” said Arcelay. “As everything advances, parts become obsolete and chasing down parts or trying to fix with what you have available is a challenge.”

The Active is currently operating well beyond its 30-year design service life. The Medium Endurance Cutter class is considered the backbone of the Coast Guard’s fleet; however, engineering challenges have plagued the operations of these vessels in recent years. There are many unique challenges to being the lead damage controlman aboard a cutter. It is damage control, not damage repair says Arcelay.

“Reporting here has kept me busy and I’m happy for it,” said Arcelay. “I usually tell my wife she’s my one and only, but the ship is my mistress, because I spend so many hours on this ship it would make any wife jealous.”

The crew returned June 1, 2018, from a 53-day counter-narcotics patrol in the Eastern Pacific Ocean where they interdicted three “panga” style vessels and one pleasure craft, resulting in the seizure of more than three tons of illicit narcotics worth an estimated $95 million wholesale value, and the apprehension of 11 suspected drug smugglers.

Despite aging platforms, Medium Endurance Cutter crews continue to patrol the drug transit zone in the Pacific Ocean near Central and South America with success. In fact, these crews stopped nearly a third of all drugs seized by the U.S. Coast Guard in Fiscal Year 2017, more than 138,000 pounds. In Fiscal Year 2017, the Coast Guard removed more than 493,000 pounds of cocaine worth more than $6.6 billion, which was a new record for the service, up from 443,000 pounds of cocaine in Fiscal Year 2016.

“I’m incredibly proud of this crew and their accomplishments,” said Cmdr. Chris German, commanding officer of the Active. “The success of this patrol is a testament to their hard work and dedication. Just to keep a 52-year-old ship in prime condition is a feat in and of itself, and they have done that and much more.”

Medium Endurance Cutters are scheduled for replacement by the Offshore Patrol Cutter, with construction of the first vessel slated to begin in 2018 and delivery of the first one scheduled for 2021. The OPC is one of the Coast Guard’s highest priority acquisitions, and as a replacement for the aging Medium Endurance Cutters, the OPC will be the foundation of the Coast Guard’s offshore fleet and bridge the gap between the capability of the National Security Cutter and the Fast Response Cutter.

Arcelay has 18 years of Coast Guard service under his belt, and he is at the end of his tour with the Active. He reports to Coast Guard Base Cape Cod in July.

“I’m pretty sure this is the unit that taught me the most,” said Arcelay. “It’s made me a better person, a better damage controlman, a better technician, and I’ve done so much to this ship to help keep her afloat that I’m sure this unit has been the most helpful in my career.”