Author Topic: Damage Control training @ PN  (Read 3532 times)

adroth

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Damage Control training @ PN
« on: November 09, 2016, 04:22:46 PM »
From: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/damage.htm

Damage Control

Battle is the most severe test of a ship. Preparing a ship for battle begins long before the general alarm sounds. A thorough knowledge by all hands of the ship's systems and ongoing maintenance is integral to preparation for battle. This ensures that when pushed to the limit the systems perform to maximum capability. All personnel should strive for a complete knowledge of the ship's systems and the damage control procedures required to resist or control damage. This knowledge provides depth in the survivability organization by preparing personnel to assume the duties of seniors who may become casualties of the battle. Any weakness or failure to function at design capability is a weak link in the ship's ability to survive.

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« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 10:34:41 PM by adroth »

adroth

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2018, 12:20:16 PM »
From: https://www.facebook.com/groups/rpdefense/permalink/1683970421688798/

RIMPAC 2018| Fleet Training and Doctrine Center (FTDC) of the Philippine Fleet oversaw the conduct of the Special Operational Readiness Evaluation (ORE) onboard BRP Davao Del Sur (LD602) and BRP Andres Bonifacio (FF17) to ensure the operational readiness of the ships and crew as it prepares for its International Defense and Security Engagement (IDSE) in Hawaii.









adroth

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2018, 12:22:53 PM »
From: https://www.facebook.com/groups/rpdefense/permalink/1650213608397813/

Ship’s riders’ trains for Survival

Commanding Officer, BRP Gregorio del Pilar (FF15), Cmdr Santiago Pacis Jr PN (GSC) emphasizes the importance of emergency preparedness during the ship’s voyage to participate in the multilateral naval exercise codenamed, KOMODO 2018.

“It is our responsibility to remain prepared for emergencies, everyone must learn how to survive in the ship,” he stated.

Members of the PN contingent experienced how to use personal protective of equipment such as Emergency Escape Breathing Device (EEBD) and Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA). This was followed by demonstration of different fire fighting tactics to combat fire.


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adroth

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jetmech

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2018, 04:08:04 PM »
From: https://www.facebook.com/groups/rpdefense/permalink/1683970421688798/

RIMPAC 2018| Fleet Training and Doctrine Center (FTDC) of the Philippine Fleet oversaw the conduct of the Special Operational Readiness Evaluation (ORE) onboard BRP Davao Del Sur (LD602) and BRP Andres Bonifacio (FF17) to ensure the operational readiness of the ships and crew as it prepares for its International Defense and Security Engagement (IDSE) in Hawaii.





The PN could have used the money to purchase new BDUs for firefighter's ensemble/ gloves, other firefighting equipment (even NFTI) to equip repair lockers on ships. You can see only two have protective gear (this was on the LSD, I think). A team usually have 5 to 6 members. Have not learned. Too excited to show-off for RIMPAC?

adroth

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2018, 07:18:05 PM »
The PN could have used the money to purchase new BDUs for firefighter's ensemble/ gloves, other firefighting equipment (even NFTI) to equip repair lockers on ships. You can see only two have protective gear (this was on the LSD, I think). A team usually have 5 to 6 members. Have not learned. Too excited to show-off for RIMPAC?

Yup, this was on the LSD.

On the matter of the size of the team, check this out

http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=623.msg11257#msg11257

jetmech

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2018, 08:43:00 PM »
   It seems training is not standardized or damage control "is to each his own." The three Del Pilars came from one source and were trained longer (DC were all the same concept). I suspect the two personnel seen on the simulated firefighting primary station is the flight deck (asbestos clad suits). It was awkward to see them with helmets, since their head cover is supposed to be the same material as the garment.  I even saw an image (from another thread) of what was supposed to be Damage Control Central (DCC) on a conference room :(. My experience, DCC is down at main engineering, Chief Engineer (CHENG) runs the whole DC evolution. Unless PNs chief engineers likes to hang around ward rooms & conference rooms (it's not hot).

jetmech

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2018, 09:30:00 PM »
   Just to elaborate, Damage Control Central (DCC) contains all the information of the ship, from pipe location, hatches, circuit breakers, magazines, crew quarters etc, through maps/ drawings, necessary to fight whatever damage the ship will encounter.  Seeing being done on a conference room, not realistic. If DCC gets taken out, contingency is to move to another repair locker where the same maps & drawings, comms are available. "Train the way you fight." RIMPAC is to show you're capable fighting force.

adroth

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2018, 09:53:26 AM »
"Train the way you fight." RIMPAC is to show you're capable fighting force.

C/o shoulder tap from PN personnel that saw your post

Quote
. . . I kinda agree with the sentiments of one retired Admiral on PN joining RIMPAC:

It would've been better if we only sent personnel rather than skip the scheduled maintenance, needlessly guzzling fuel and being too "show-off".

Why?

According to that Admiral, we could've just sent these personnel aboard one of our allies' ship as ship's riders, and join their drills and functions. That way we'll be able to learn drills and true naval warfighting skills, including SOP's on highly-modern ships so we can apply them once we get our own...


Fortis93

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2018, 10:42:05 AM »
I cringed when I saw the pic of what was being billed as DC Central on the Davao day Sur, as it looks like it was just one of the wardrooms. A DC Central is usually deep inside the ship and has the communications, charts, gauges/displays/monitors of vital systems to coordinate damage control efforts. DC Central is also manned 24/7 with watch standers monitoring systems and are ready to coordinate damage control efforts. The more I see pictures of the interior of the Tarlac Class, the more the claims that it is built to civilian specs ring truer and truer. I see a lot of long p ways without water tight doors to set flooding and fire boundaries, a lack of DC fittings, lots of spaces with exterior portholes, lots of flammable false bulkheads rather than steel bulkheads that are part of the ship’s structure, even the deck on the well deck seems to be smooth and lacks any type of non skid material. As pointed out by Jetmech the fire fighting suit worn by the sailors in the picture is usually worn on the flight deck. I have seen pics of hose teams and DC teams on the GDP Class ships and their FF suit and equipment such as their helmets and SCBA are pretty much the same as what the US use. So it seems DC equipment is not standard fleet wide. As for the wisdom of sending ships vs observers, I’m kind of torn. Maintenance being deferred is never good unless absolutely necessary. The PN has been sending observers for years, but there is something to be said about doing and experiencing something on your own.

jetmech

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2018, 08:51:11 PM »
      I’m not trying to insult or put down the organization, just disappointed to see the navy has long way to go in one important facet of naval warfare, damage control. May 2011 was when the PF-15 was transferred to the PN.  A lot of knowledge and skill sets have been gained ever since with follow-up acquisition of 2 more Hamilton class ships. Seven years have past! So, what do they (leaders in charge of manpower education & training) have to show with regards to at least adapting/ or standardizing their own damage control education/ program? I could point out some other minor observations like some ship riders (SEALS & marines) seems to get their first experience in basic firefighting and live hose use  already underway. That should have been on a school house setting. They learn how to become back-up manpower to the ship’s damage control organization. The ship riders have to understand, once onboard, it’s HOME. Onboard, they get to know their battle stations (mustering point) in case “battle stations” is called. They learn with ship’s main crew by participating in drills and learning where the repair lockers are and how to set material conditions (Yoke/ Zebra/ William in securing hatches, scuttles etc). 
   Using live hoses for drills/ training is a waste of water supply vital to cooling spaces with essential electronic gears.  Wait till the PN get hold of the new Korean frigates. Do the sailors & officers think air conditioning and chill water (CHW) supply is for their comfort? In the Persian Gulf, if one of the ship’s cooling systems or water supply malfunctions, water rationing is enforced on the crew, not to the spaces where the vital electronics are used or located. Air conditioning is shut-off on sleeping quarters and non-essential spaces. Hurricane fans are distributed, though, but it’s horrible. Damage control personnel & work center technicians must have the knowledge where to jumper/ re-route a damage chill water supply line to let's say the radar systems from another space or side of the ship. So, to whoever is reading this from the PN, “are you there yet?”

mayk

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 09:53:37 PM »
Do the sailors & officers think air conditioning and chill water (CHW) supply is for their comfort? In the Persian Gulf, if one of the ship’s cooling systems or water supply malfunctions, water rationing is enforced on the crew, not to the spaces where the vital electronics are used or located. Air conditioning is shut-off on sleeping quarters and non-essential spaces. Hurricane fans are distributed, though, but it’s horrible. Damage control personnel & work center technicians must have the knowledge where to jumper/ re-route a damage chill water supply line to let's say the radar systems from another space or side of the ship. So, to whoever is reading this from the PN, “are you there yet?”

Chilled Water Air Conditioning... one of the perennial weaknesses of the PN. Just look at how many ships have been retrofitted with split type (residential/commercial) air conditioning. I've even seen one with window type A/C.

Any equipment more complex than a piston diesel engine is not well maintained by the PN. Water distilling units, auxiliary power generation, washer and drier and even ice makers when they break down, they get replaced with residential or commercial grade equipment. I've seen residential gensets in use for the Aguinaldo class at the docks. Residential washer on some Andrada class.

adroth

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2018, 10:12:09 PM »
Moving Damage Control discussions on the RIMPAC thread here instead.

adroth

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Re: Damage Control training @ PN
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2018, 10:19:09 PM »
Skills gaps were also noticed in another discussion about personnel protection equipment for PN gun crews.

Interesting reaction to a photo of the BRP Pangasinan conducting a Gunnex without proper protective gear

From: https://www.facebook.com/groups/AFPModernizationToday/permalink/1242704839196634/



More photos of the Gunnex. C/o of the BRP Pangasinan FB page

From: https://www.facebook.com/brppangasinan/videos/1722989511300496/

Circa 2016







In contrast, the crew of the BRP Miguel Malvar appeared up to WWII specs

Contrast the crew above with the crew of the Miguel Malvar