Author Topic: PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project  (Read 2927 times)

adroth

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PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project
« on: December 18, 2019, 04:46:27 PM »
PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project
By Priam Nepomuceno  December 17, 2019

https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1088915

MANILA -- The Philippine Air Force (PAF) is currently evaluating two aircraft for its multi-role fighter (MRF) project, Department of National Defense (DND) Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said Monday night.

"One of the aircraft being evaluated is from Sweden (the Saab JAS 39 'Gripen) and the other is the American (General Dynamics) F-16 (V)," Lorenzana said when sought for updates on the MRF which is being eyed to beef up the country's air defense system.

He did not give additional details on the process.

< Edited >
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 04:47:49 AM by adroth »

horge

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Re: PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2019, 08:33:58 AM »
*cough*






adroth

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Re: PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2019, 05:02:09 AM »
Difference this time, we've already plunked down billions on two SSVs, two frigates, and host of other brand new acquisitions. More reasons to take our requests for proposals more seriously.

horge

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Re: PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2019, 07:19:24 AM »
I don't think this is a matter of us being taken more 'seriously' just because we've successfully
run out big-ticket buy-cycles prior. Either our money is there at the appointed hour or it isn't, for
the Swedes at least. With the U.S., things are even goosier: the U.S. has seriously offered PH
Lawn Darts before ---indeed long before any big ticket notches in our belt: the double dozen
Falcon offer of 1987 in particular, such as I will cite again later.

I'm not worried about foreign attitudes, but rather, local issues. I'm looking at political horizons.

Foreign observers can freely speak on their own domestic contexts, but here, in the Philippines,
money and political will are far more tenuous considerations. My points of reference go a decent
ways back: I personally remember when the last of the MAP Freedom Fighters was delivered,
'67-ish.

My worry is based on this:
It's almost always well past noon whenever MRF (particularly F-16) aspirations get zombied up.
The only time post-60's these were floated up early enough in a term to be credible was when it
was the U.S. that broached it (just like the MAP F-5) to Corazon Aquino's administration, via then
Secy of State Shultz in '87, but then the U.S. Treasury Department's finest just *HAD* to deeply
offend someone's brother, to the point of nixing any/all F-16 talk.

If talk starts late, the option for the US to just string us along, until a more amenable-and-pliant
administration is in place (one they can dictate inferior terms to), is just too attractive for them
to pass up.

Rodrigo Duterte is stepping down post summer 2022, and we're past halfway through his term.
I've seen Presidents with far less erratic policy-making fail to stay the course in MRF acquisition
when started so late: COUNTING on an impending end of term to absolve them of the cost. I've
also seen succeeding administrations back-burner the defense acquisition projects of far less
antagonizing predecessors, out of sheer spite.



....but this is really about the vexing quality of the (non-)news item itself.
No, I leave SecDef Delfin Lorenzana blameless: he was asked a question, which he answered,
whereafter the PNA decided to fill in the blanks with hot garbage:

F-16V? Really?
PNA will posit 70/72 which are nearly 200M (with sides and sauce) each, new-build, even when
in a larger-scale deal like ROC's 66 new birds + 144 upgrades from Block 20 ... cock-pitted (in the
"sabong" sense) against a Swedish bird that costs less than half? Worse still if it's 39C/D rather
than new 39E/F. Even on an AMARG-zombie-upgrade-to-quasi-70 route, it's a ridiculous mismatch
on cost terms, flyaway and especially lifecycle... and even more ridiculous a mismatch on  basis
of performance spec quals/disquals... so why assume 70/72?

Puñeta, e sa "General Dynamics" F-16V pa lang, this article was just underripe compost.
The same kind of MRF-related sewer-gas we've all had to deal with, again and again and again...








« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 12:14:28 PM by horge »

sirius

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Re: PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2019, 12:15:24 PM »
Which model of the JAS-39? E/F would be closer in performance to the F-16V but C/D would be more friendly to the budget... I guess it would be a matter of whether or not the Saab offering meets the minimum requirements, then they win as the lowest cost qualified competitor?

girder

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Re: PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2019, 01:49:08 PM »
From what I have been told, the LM offer was for 14 units, with 12 Block 70+ and 2 Block 50+ (hot transfer for the latter).

The Saab offer is for 14 units C/D Gripens.

The PAF is only requiring 3 units to be two-seaters.

horge

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Re: PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2019, 04:20:39 PM »
There is a big difference between a vendor-initiated pitch, and a formal response to a properly ABC-backed RFP.
The spirit of that difference translates even into a context of direct-nego.

Blurring the difference potentially poisons the well, and lies close to my chief complaint vs. that PNA news(?) article.

sirius

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Re: PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2020, 05:59:22 AM »
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2020-02-08/plaaf-senior-pilot-reveals-poor-performance-joint-exercise-rtaf

PLAAF Senior Pilot Reveals Poor Performance in Joint Exercise With RTAF


Quote
An early December 2019 report from inside of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) reveals previously unreleased technical details of People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) Russian-built Su-27s losing a majority of engagements in a November 2015 joint exercise with the 701 Fighter Squadron of the Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF). This Thai unit operates eight Saab JAS-39C and four JAS-39D Gripens.

The engagements, known as Falcon Strike 2015, were the first of three such exercises and were detailed in a lecture given by one of the PLAAF’s most heavily decorated pilots, Senior Colonel Li Chunghua Hua (李中華), at the PRC’s Northwestern Polytechnical University (西北工业大学) in Xi’an, Shaanxi Province.

Li is described as one of the most experienced Sukhoi Su-27SK/J-11A pilots in the PLAAF with some 3,200 hours in fast jets, much of them in the Russian-made Sukhoi.  His revelations are unprecedented and are assessed by US intelligence as demonstrating a growing concern within the officer corps over deficiencies with the training regime for the PLAAF’s pilot cadre.

...

Ayoshi

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Re: PAF evaluating 2 aircraft types for multi-role fighter project
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2020, 11:33:00 AM »

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/air-warfare/singapore-airshow-2020-viper-and-gripen-dogfight-m/

Quote
Singapore Airshow 2020: Viper and Gripen dogfight for Manila deal
5th February 2020 - 05:30 GMT

After decommissioning its Northrop F-5A fighters in 2005, the PAF lost supersonic combat aircraft capabilities for a decade until delivery of the Korea Aerospace Industries FA-50PH in 2015, using it as a stepping stone to regain expertise in high-end aerial warfare.

Washington is currently working with Manila on a Foreign Military Sales deal for the F-16 Block 70, although details of the full package are unclear. Lockheed Martin is working on ground demonstrations, while the US DoD is assisting with flight demonstrations.

A Saab official told Shephard the jets on offer are the JAS 39C/D in MS20 configuration and with P/S-05 Mk 4 radar. It added that the number of aircraft is still to be determined and will be driven by the final budget allocation. However, it will likely be a squadron-level acquisition of around six to eight aircraft.

The PAF’s MRF Technical Working Group has evaluated the Gripen in Sweden and other Gripen-user air forces over the past few years as part of its evaluation process.