Author Topic: Black Hawks for the PAF?  (Read 5727 times)

sirius

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2020, 08:22:10 AM »
What happened to the Mi-171 deal? I thought they were in Russia recently to inspect the production line. Couldn't get a CAATSA waiver?

girder

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2020, 09:06:31 PM »
What happened to the Mi-171 deal? I thought they were in Russia recently to inspect the production line. Couldn't get a CAATSA waiver?

The Mi-17 purchase is a completely separate acquisition project.

baybum7

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2020, 01:03:37 PM »
What happened to the Mi-171 deal? I thought they were in Russia recently to inspect the production line. Couldn't get a CAATSA waiver?

Seems highly unlikely to trigger CAATSA. This is not as sophisticated to Turkey's S-400 purchase.

But I still don't understand the push to get Mi-171, when this is just a marginal upgrade in lift capability to the S-70i and would be a maintenance burden due to a new maintenance line needed for a new platform. Why not just get more 412EPs, S70i or finally get some CH47s. The only thing I can see as the intent for this purchase is purely political to appease Russia.

girder

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2020, 07:06:13 PM »
Remember that the Mi-171 has a cargo variant with a loading ramp. Something that neither the S-70 nor the 412 have.



It's also significantly cheaper to acquire in numbers than the Chinook. Something that should be plainly apparent DND officials given the budgetary concerns that have weighed heavily on the attack helicopter acquisition project.

And then there's the aircraft's track record of being robust and over engineered such that it can operate even with minimal maintenance (not that you'd want to make it a habit). Though on that note: the air frame is ubiquitous enough that there are numerous certified support service providers outside of the country of origin (Ex. Elbit Systems). At least 7 countries within the SEA region have long operated the aircraft.

So there's more there than just geopolitical considerations to justify the selection.

But in any case, this is getting out of topic for this thread.

baybum7

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2020, 08:36:50 PM »
Is it really worth the downs for just a helicopter with a ramp though? I think this might still be somewhat on topic mainly because the question is; is the money that may be allocated to the Mi-171 be worth it, or would it be better suited to buy more of the 412EP which is being touted as the UH-1H replacement, the S-70i which is a significant upgrade to the 412EP, or the CH47 which has always been part of the PAF Flight Plan.

The Mi-171 feels like something between the S-70i and the CH47. But does it actually fill a role in the PAF when they have not considered it? Or are we just looking for things it can do to justify the procurement?

tagalacion

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2020, 01:15:38 PM »
IMHO, Hips deserve consideration and might be worth PAF's while to request our American friends for CAATSA exemption for them.  After all, didn't the US even buy some for their Afghan allies back when US-Russian relations weren't as frigid and then went on to admit that Hips did indeed have a few advantages over the Black Hawks?

Of course, the main criteria for PAF isn't so much practical as it is geopolitical as it's kinda hard to see the US looking the other way if we do buy Hips.  It's just that even going all-Black Hawks isn't much of a guarantee those helos won't transform into expensive hangar ornaments anyway, given the current/ongoing/accelerating western media anti-DU30 blitzkrieg in the west.

Whatever the PAF decides, I don' envy them their choice on this matter.  Personally, just buy those dang Black Hawks - keep buying them - and be done with it.  And if some US congressman or senator tries to buy cheap political points by proposing US sanctions against 'evil' Digong anyway, we can always pinkie swear that the PAF will only use Black Hawks for humanitarian missions and never ever against long suffering Filipinos like the NPA's or the Abu Sayyaf.  :o

adroth

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2020, 12:40:53 PM »
Photo of made-in-Poland S-70i reportedly for delivery to PAF. Photo c/o tkepanowski

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCETq-mhn3_/?fbclid=IwAR3Dz6Vv2jYqKFSxCjzvs8hUDg0YDdBsAcgyKP4qk9mUOl6eySyHQkSUfpY