Author Topic: Black Hawks for the PAF?  (Read 7381 times)

adroth

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Black Hawks for the PAF?
« on: December 07, 2018, 11:59:41 PM »
Administrator’s note: See also S-70 @ PAW

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PH to buy US helicopters, not Russian, due to sanctions: Lorenzana
Reuters
Posted at Dec 07 2018 08:14 PM | Updated as of Dec 07 2018 08:39 PM

https://news.abs-cbn.com/news/12/07/18/ph-to-buy-us-helicopters-not-russian-due-to-sanctions-lorenzana

MANILA- The Philippines will buy 16 Black Hawk helicopters from the Sikorsky Aircraft Corp for P12.67 billion ($240 million), shunning cheaper Russian equipment due to U.S. sanctions on Russian military exports, Defense Chief Delfin Lorenzana said Friday.

< Edited >

Lorenzana said the Air Force would sign a contract early next year for the 16 Black Hawks, even though the Russians offered the second lowest price.

< Edited >
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 01:02:31 AM by adroth »

adroth

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2018, 01:05:30 AM »
Air Force chooses Black Hawk, Turkey attack choppers — Lorenzana
Patricia Lourdes Viray (philstar.com) - December 7, 2018 - 4:24pm

MANILA, Philippines — The Philippine Air Force has chosen to acquire the Black Hawk helicopter as replacement for the canceled combat utility chopper deal with Canada, Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said.

< Edited >

"I think finally the Air Force technical working group has come up with a recommendation that the Black Hawk is the best option that they will buy," Lorenzana told reporters at the sidelines of a forum in Makati City Friday.

< Edited >

"We have limited money for that. We have only $240 million worth and the original pricing of this aircraft for the (Bell 41) we can get 16," Lorenzana said.

"Initially, the Surion we can get 10 because of the money and also the Black Hawk," the secretary said, adding that the manufacturers of the Black Hawk changed its offer so that the Philippines could get 16 choppers.

< Edited >

Read more at https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2018/12/07/1875028/air-force-chooses-black-hawk-turkey-attack-choppers-lorenzana?fbclid=IwAR1zHGxP25IFhP3bHZYzQkWYtbqef6K8teTE852LXAC_FW0BcVoFj6thk6M#HOseLVxbPWoh9asU.99

Ayoshi

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2018, 01:09:42 AM »
From: US dangles F-16 fighters, attack helicopters to PH thread

Lockheed Martin’s PHL pitch: 4th-gen F-16, Black Hawks | businessmirror.com.ph - September 27, 2018
Quote
American company Lockheed Martin offered its unrivaled fourth- generation F-16 fighter jets and Black Hawk helicopters from its subsidiary Sikorsky to fill the capability gap of the Air Force.

The defense manufacturer was among the exhibitors at the ongoing 3rd Asian Defense, Security and Crisis Management Exhibition and Conference (ADAS) at the World Trade Center in  Pasay City.

Quote
On the other hand, Jacob Sifers, regional manager for business development of Sikorsky, said the Black Hawk should meet the requirement for attack, medical evacuation, humanitarian assistance, and search and rescue of the military.

The Black Hawk is currently in operation in 31 countries, including Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea.

See also: Sikorsky UH-60 / S-70 Black Hawk multi-mission helicopter
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 05:33:31 AM by Ayoshi »

Maverik2018

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2018, 10:08:51 AM »
Interesting change of events?  Some people in the government were making noises about how good or cheap the Russian helos are, or even Korea's Surions. Let's see if those decisions, ATaK included do not go to different directuon like what happened with the frigate acquisition.

horge

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 05:15:09 AM »
making noises about how good or cheap the Russian helos are


adroth

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2018, 02:10:37 PM »
Sikorsky open to partnerships in PH
By: Roy Stephen C. Canivel - @inquirerdotnet Philippine Daily Inquirer / 05:18 AM October 06, 2018

Sikorsky Aircraft, a subsidiary of the the world’s biggest defense contractor, is open to partnerships here in the Philippines in a bid to enhance its supply chain and production, a top official said.

Jacob Sifers, company regional manager for business development, said the company was always looking for partnerships, citing the ties it had made in various parts of Asia.

< Edited >

Both Sikorsky and Lockheed Martin participated for the first time in the Asian Defense, Security and Crisis Management Exhibition and Conference last month in Metro Manila.

< Edited >

Another example is Thailand, wherein Sikorsky authorized Thai Aviation Services to operate as the first Sikorsky Customer Support Center in that country, according to a recent company statement.

While he did not specify the potential ties the company could have here in the Philippines, this is not the first time that Lockheed Martin subsidiary worked with the country.

The country still has one unit of the first generation of Sikorsky’s famous Black Hawk helicopter, he said, which was acquired by the Philippines in the 1980s.

To date, there are more than 4,000 units of this aircraft across the globe, with the US Army being the largest market for this aircraft accounting for more than half of the entire supply, the company’s website said.

< Edited >

For its part, Lockheed Martin is also interested to do business with the Philippines by supplying the combat-proven  fighter jet F-16, according to Randy Howard, director for business development at the Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company Integrated Fighter Group.

Read more: https://business.inquirer.net/258492/sikorsky-open-partnerships-ph#ixzz5Zv2JEN5P
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 02:12:37 PM by adroth »

sbhntr

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 03:00:40 PM »
so why doesn’t the grp go fishing on its own? using the possible purchase of -60s as bait, it would help if the us gov could “lend” a few old h-60 being decomm’d by the us army (these could be from japan or korea), to use as trainers and short term stop gap measure until the new hawks are delivered. when the new ones are all in country, then the grp can, if the us wants, return the old helos. or, to save them the cost of transport and disposal, just let the paf keep them.

adroth

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2018, 04:42:20 PM »
Wouldn't time with the existing S-70 count as training time?

horge

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2018, 10:11:51 AM »
Wouldn't time with the existing S-70 count as training time?

With the basic platform, yes.
With the newer systems on-board the contract 'hawks, no.
This is especially true wrt CBM, which directly affects opcost.



I still find it hard to believe that Russian rotary air (Mi-17) was a serious contender.
http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=4115.0
 :P
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 10:13:35 AM by horge »

adroth

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2018, 10:49:08 AM »
I still find it hard to believe that Russian rotary air (Mi-17) was a serious contender.
http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=4115.0
 :P

Not for the CUH, but for the heavy (relatively speaking) helicopter project.

The PAF nixed the seaplane project for a cargo helicopter and the Mi-17, which demonstrated its lift capability during Ondoy, was touted as the yardstick.

sbhntr

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2018, 03:06:50 AM »
Unfortunately, there are a lot of “don’t know” on this one so I’m going minimum. First one would be the ratio of pilots to airframe required, then the hours required to qualify pilots, followed by proficiency. I believe guard units require about 8-10 hours per month for proficiency alone. Assuming you only need two pilots per airframe and anticipating 10 bhawks. that would require too much from one helo. One will also need another airframe for maintenance training. Add to that the flying required to tweak or develop new doctrines.

If I am not mistaken, there is an existing us gov contract for a production rate of about 50+ units a year destined for the us army and fms customers. Signed in 2017, that means the production for 2018 and 2019 are already allocated. Even if the afp can ride on this contract and get priority (which will always be below us needs), the delivery might be early/sustained in ones and twos or big batches at a much later date.

In short it would be good if there are helos which could be used for training etc,. etc which in turn could save a lot of hours on the new airframes plus having ready crews and doctrines if the deal pushes through.

As a side story, our local law enforcement ex military h-1ns are being replaced with ex military -60s. one has already been delivered and has been sitting on the apron for a while.

* h-1n not 214
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 06:13:04 AM by sbhntr »

adroth

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2019, 05:55:12 AM »
PHL to purchase Black Hawk helicopters from Poland —Lorenzana
Published January 17, 2019 5:21pm
By ANNA FELICIA BAJO, GMA News

https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news/nation/681810/phl-to-purchase-black-hawk-helicopters-from-poland-lorenzana/story/?just_in&fbclid=IwAR1F4_yQmWGSsHzwej9JUyhcIfb35yuc-uhEfmmMr1juYzVSUK0J0ejyifU

The Philippine government will purchase Black Hawk helicopters from Poland, Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said on Thursday.

Lorenzana told reporters that President Rodrigo Duterte already approved the procurement for the helicopters.

< Edited >

“Ang sabi ko sa kanya anyway this aircraft is coming from Poland. Gagawin sa Poland ‘yan... there is a factory in Poland making Black Hawk under Lockheed Martin at saka Sikorsky. I think he approves that, this is an exception siguro because maganda doon na,” he added.

Last January 11, Duterte said the Philippines would not buy military equipment from the US, adding that the country “criticized heavily” his war on illegal drugs.

< Edited >

adroth

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adroth

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2019, 01:06:54 PM »
10 of 16 Black Hawk helicopters to arrive in 2020 – Air Force chief
By: Frances Mangosing - Reporter / @FMangosingINQ INQUIRER.net / 12:04 AM July 03, 2019

MANILA, Philippines — The first 10 of the 16 units of Black Hawk helicopters for the Philippine Air Force will be delivered in 2020.

Air Force chief Lt. Gen. Rozzano Briguez told reporters at a gathering last week that the first 10 helicopters would be delivered in batches next year while the rest would arrive in 2021.

The 16 Sikorsky S-70i Black Hawk helicopters — costing a total of P12 billion — replaced the canceled contract of 16 Bell 412EP helicopters from Canada.

< Edited >

Read more: https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1137043/10-of-16-black-hawk-helicopters-to-arrive-in-2020-air-force-chief#ixzz5saW3Gmy1
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook

Ayoshi

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Re: Black Hawks for the PAF?
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2020, 12:20:38 AM »
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/sikorsky-set-to-pitch-armed-black-hawk-for-philippine-requirement_10215

Quote
18 June 2020 00:00 GMT+0
Sikorsky set to pitch armed Black Hawk for Philippine requirement

Sikorsky, a Lockheed Martin company, is preparing a proposal to offer to the Philippines an armed version of its latest S-70i Black Hawk utility helicopter.

< snipped >

The proposal also builds on Sikorsky’s contract - awarded in April 2019 - to build and deliver 16 S-70i Black Hawks to meet the PAF’s separate ‘combat utility helicopter’ (CUH) programme.