Author Topic: Shipbuilders getting their way in choosing Combat Management Systems, et. al.  (Read 2049 times)

adroth

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At the height of the senate frackas over the AFP overseas Timawans /  DefensePH members brought up how the Philippines was not alone in struggling to figure out the Combat System Management that REALLY wanted on their ships. Malaysia had it's own experience.

This particular sharing was posted on the forum publicly.

The Royal Malaysian Navy did not want to have the SENIT CMS on their LCS (having the TACITCOS, COSYS110-M1, Nautis-F, IPN already in service). But Boustead went ahead with it anyway.  8)

The Malaysians had gone through the same thing with their Littoral Combat Ship programme.

Boustead (BHIC) was made the prime contractor and given full authority to decide on the combat systems. RMN wanted Thales TACTICOS, but they ended up with DCNS SENIT. Now they have DCNS SENIT (in the LCS), Atlas COSYS (in Kedah class), Thales TACTICOS (Katsuri SLEP), BAE Nautis F (in the Lekiu), Hanwha Naval Shield (in the training ships). What a stellar collection of combat systems!


Bread crumbs were laid . . . time to follow up on them.

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Here's the base article

Combat ship deal held up
Posted on 7 December 2011 - 05:30am
Last updated on 7 December 2011 - 02:17pm
Marhalim Abas
newsdesk@thesundaily.com

http://www.thesundaily.my/news/231154

LANGKAWI (Dec 7, 2011): The Gowind frigate, designed by French company DCNS, has been selected for the Royal Malaysian Navy’s Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) programme.

However, the contract for building the six ships remains on hold due to disagreements between the builder, Boustead Naval Shipyard Sdn Bhd (BNS), and the end user RMN, according to people familiar with the programme.

One of the key sticking points is BNS and DCNS’s insistence that the ships adopt the SETIS combat management system (CMS) designed by the French company.

RMN instead wants another system developed by Thales, the Tacticos, being integrated into one of its vessels, KD Kasturi.

The navy had hoped to reduce the number of CMS in its fleet to reduce training and support issues. RMN chief Tan Sri Abdul Aziz Jaafar told theSun yesterday that the government had chosen the Gowind design for the LCS programme.

He declined to confirm or deny speculation that the contract would only be signed when the RMN was satisfied that its requirements were met. He, however, confirmed most of the specifications for the ship had been finalised.

BNS managing director Tan Sri Ahmad Ramli Mohd Nor, however, denied the delay was due to disagreement with the end user.

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« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 04:22:26 AM by adroth »

adroth

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From: https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/malaysia-becomes-dcns-1st-customer-for-gowind-ships-07272/

Malaysia’s Gowinds

Subsequent reports from Navy Recognition indicated that Malaysia is interested in the Gowind Combat corvettes, and current plans involve launching the 1st Second Generation Patrol Vessel Littoral Combat Ship (SGPV-LCS) in 2018. Provisional specifications appear to make them the size of small frigates, only slightly smaller than the USA’s Littoral Combat Ship:

Length: 111 meters (up from 107)
Breadth: 16 meters
Full load displacement: about 3,000 tonnes (up from 2,730)
Max speed: 28 knots
Crew: Up to 138: 60 Junior sailors, 20 Petty Officers, 6 warrant Officers, 1 executive officer, 5 heads of departments, and the Captain.
Range: 5,000 nm
Endurance: 21 days

The ship models shown at a recent defense exhibition show a full helicopter hangar, and Boustead Heavy Industry Corporation has said that it will be capable of embarking helicopters up to the size the RMAF’s 12 ordered EC725 Caracal search and rescue/ special forces helicopters. Malaysia’s Navy could also choose to embark any of its 6 AgustaWestland Super Lynx 300 naval helicopters, or 6 Eurocopter AS 350 Fennec light utility helicopters.

Key Sensors

DCNS’ preference for its SETIS combat system won the day, over the Malaysian Navy’s reported preference for Thales’ Tacticos.

Thales SMART-S Mk2 3D multibeam radar

Rheinmetall’s TMEO Mk2 – TMX/EO Radar/ Electro-optical tracking and fire control system

Thales Captas family for hull sonar

ASW suite with towed array sonar

adroth

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MALAYSIA FUNDING PROBLEMS CONTINUE
19th Mar 2012

https://www.defencereviewasia.com/articles/152/Malaysia-Funding-problems-continue

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Royal Malaysian Navy

The approval of the Royal Malaysian Navy’s six ship SGPV-LCS program at a total cost of MYR 9 billion (US$2.8 billion) - which would span the 10th, 11th and 12th Malaysian plan timeframe - means that the Multi-Purpose Support Ship program that has been pending since the early 2000’s is unlikely to gain traction. This will be the case unless the government allocates additional funds. Despite the loss to a fire in 2009 of the Royal Malaysian Navy’s sole amphibious operation capable ship, the Newport class LST KD Sri Inderapura and RMN Chief Admiral Tan Sri Aziz Jaafar repeatedly stating the urgency of the MPSS program and Defence Minister Dato’ Seri Dr. Ahmad Zahid Hamidi also placing strong emphasis on getting the program started , there has been little sign from the rest of the Malaysian government as to when funding will be approved.

In the meantime, despite the approval of the SGPV-LCS program, the RMN has been locked in a protracted battle with Boustead Naval Shipyards, the builders of the ships, together with France’s DCNS, over specifications. The SGPV-LCS, despite the LCS moniker, will be a conventional hull design based on the DCNS Gowind. However, the RMN and Boustead/DCNS differ over the exact weapons and combat systems that will outfit the ship.

The DCNS SETIS combat systems has been said to be the system selected by the Malaysian government for the SGPV-LCS despite the RMN preferring the Thales Tacticos system. This is because Tacticos is already being integrated into the RMN’s two Kasturi class frigates as part of the ongoing SLEP for the Kasturis. Boustead and DCNS have recommended the Mica system for the SGPV-LCS’s surface to air missile but the the RMN prefers the Raytheon ESSM. The RMN is said to want the Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace Naval Strike Missile instead of the MBDA’s Exocet proposed by Boustead and DCNS. This is despite the fact that the Exocet is already a significant part of the RMN’s current arsenal which would thus simplify logistical support. The main gun, which is not a source of contention, is expected to be the BAE Bofors Mk3 57mm. A factor is that Boustead Naval Shipyard’s parent company, Boustead Heavy Industry Corporation has an existing joint venture partnership known as BHIC Bofors Asia.

Beyond the SGPV-LCS would be the upgrade and service-life extension program of the 2 Lekiu class frigates, both of which are close to 20 years of service. The RMN also has a requirement for at least 6 ASW helicopters which will operate off the SGPV-LCS with the US strongly promoting the MH-60R Seahawk to fulfill that requirement - though Eurocopter has also talked about offering a navalized EC725.

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adroth

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It's worth noting that when the UAE evaluated the Gowind for its own needs . . . they pushed for Tacticos instead of SETIS . . . and they got their way.

That, of course, begs the question: Why didn't the Malaysians?

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UAE Navy Orders Two Gowind Corvettes from France
POSTED ON THURSDAY, 09 NOVEMBER 2017 18:26
 
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/november-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5709-uae-navy-orders-two-gowind-corvettes-from-france.html   

French President Emmanuel Macron announced today that the United Arab Emirates (UAE) ordered two Gowind corvettes from French shipbuilder Naval Group (formerly DCNS). President Macron made the announcement during a press conference in Dubai.
        
ENS El Fateh Gowind Corvette Egypt Naval Group 1The first Gowding Corvette of the Egyptian Navy, ENS El Fateh (971). Naval Group picture.
        
The deal includes an option for two more vessels (for a possible total of four corvettes). The corvettes will be built by Naval Group in cooperation with local shipbuilder Abu Dhabi Shipbuilding (ADSB).

Contacted by Navy Recognition, an industry source explained that the corvettes would have quite a unique configuration: They are set to be fitted with the Tacticos combat management system (instead of Naval Group's own CMS, the SETIS) as well as US-made missiles (including ESSM by Raytheon): This is significant as it is the first time Raytheon missiles are fitted on a Naval Group/DCNS-built vessel.

Our source added that those specific equipments (Tacticos CMS and ESSM) are direct requirements from the end customer: The UAE Navy.

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Several of our sources have now confirmed that the UAE Gowind corvette are very likely going to be fitted with ESSM (and for this reason, the Thales TACTICOS CMS, because ESSM is already integrated with it). We learned that anti-ship missiles will be MBDA's Exocet MM40 Blk III (because of commonality: The UAE Navy already deploys this missile aboard its Abu Dhabi-class corvette, Baynunah-class corvettes and Falaj 2-class stealth patrol vessels). We also learned that a RAM launcher could be fitted on the Gowind corvettes (in a similar ESSM + RAM configuration to the Baynunah-class).

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