Author Topic: The Rule of Three  (Read 6106 times)

adroth

  • Administrator
  • Boffin
  • *****
  • Posts: 10174
    • View Profile
    • The ADROTH Project
The Rule of Three
« on: December 02, 2017, 01:32:53 PM »
For over 10 years, the original Timawa forum made scores of PH defense enthusiasts aware of the "Rule of Three". With that loss of that forum, it's now up to the rest of us to bring back that database.

====

Companion discussion on the forum's FB extension: https://www.facebook.com/groups/rpdefense/permalink/1505215852897590/

====

Here's an interesting tid bit that I ran into while researching for another project. Apparently the South Koreans use the Rule-of-Three themselves as they use their KDX-III destroyers on ballistic missile defense duty

Quote
KDX-III - Block II [KDX-IV ??] Aegis BMD

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rok/kdx-3-bmd.htm

< Edited >

High level discussions had taken place to provide South Korea an Aegis BMD capability on their KDX-III Class Aegis Destroyers. In January 2008 the South Korean navy proposed the procurement of a further three KDX-III Aegis-equipped destroyers.

< Edited >

The Navy plans to create a mobile squadron in 2010 and at least two more in the long run. To that end, the service wants to build three more KDX-III ships by 2020. With only three Aegis ships, systematic operations of mobile squadrons are almost impossible due to lack of backup capability. In general, a pair of Aegis ships is supposed to thwart enemy aircraft and incoming missiles, respectively, while another pair is on standby and another one under regular maintenance.

< Edited >

Our Navy has three Aegis ships in total, and we’re on a very tight schedule to operate them as one for operating, another for standby and the other for maintenance. As we’re seeking for further military strength such as a task fleet, additional Aegis ships are essential for more effective operation," an MND official explained regarding the background of the additional securement of Aegis.

< Edited >
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:02:56 AM by adroth »

mayk

  • Timawan
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2017, 06:12:40 PM »
Here's an interesting tid bit that I ran into while researching for another project. Apparently the South Koreans use the Rule-of-Three themselves as they use their KDX-III destroyers on ballistic missile defense duty

Its particular for the navy because of the 12-18 month maintenance cycle of ships. In the PN my observation is that there is only one Jacinto class operational at any given time and the rotation fits a 12 month cycle. It can be observed with the Del Pilar class as well - one in dry dock, one returning from patrol, and one in port ready to be deployed in a few days notice. The PN usually provisions for 15 day patrols. This was the norm during the golden years of the PN and it seems the PN heading back to that tempo. I remember in one of the PN videos the female supply officer of one of the Del Pilar class saying that they provision for 15 days.

There is a reason for the USN having 11 carriers, its to have 3 deployed at any given time with the ability to surge to 4.

https://www.stripes.com/news/in-era-of-tight-budgets-how-many-aircraft-carriers-are-enough-1.287563

This is a good read on aircraft carrier maintenance cycles:

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9316/index1.html

Should not be the case for aircraft because of shorter A,B,C,D checks which is also dependent on flight hours with the PAF having lower operational tempo. I leave it to the experts for their inputs.

adroth

  • Administrator
  • Boffin
  • *****
  • Posts: 10174
    • View Profile
    • The ADROTH Project
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2018, 11:45:22 AM »
The Chinese carrier-deployment gap highlights the importance of the rule-of-three

Carrier rendezvous at Dalian Shipyard
Some wonder if mooring the two carriers in Dalian has crated a 'defense void' in disputed areas of the South China Sea
By FRANK CHEN MAY 30, 2018 6:45 PM (UTC+8)

http://www.atimes.com/article/chinas-two-carriers-both-dock-in-dalian/

Liaoning, the People’s Liberation Army’s solo aircraft carrier in service, has joined her sister ship, the nation’s first domestically built carrier which has yet to be christened, at the Dalian Shipyard since Sunday.

Chinese papers and military buffs are hailing the historic rendezvous of the two seagoing airbases, relishing the picture-perfect occasion of two huge vessels moored alongside each other.

Liaoning is back at her homeport of Dalian in the northeastern Chinese province it is named after for scheduled maintenance as well as R&R for her crew, having spent the majority of the first half of the year at sea. It also led an armada of ships and submarines in April which included a high-profile passage through the Taiwan Strait.

The last time Liaoning was in dry-dock was in May 2014, in the same berth where the Soviet-era vessel was retrofitted. The new homemade carrier is almost a lookalike of the Liaoning with an identical ski-jump bow. It is also moored at the Dalian Shipyard after undergoing its first sea trial earlier this month.

Recent photos indicate the new carrier is undergoing checks below her waterline, with some activity suggesting newer layers of anti-corrosion coating being put on the hull.

< Edited >

Some have also questioned if there’s now a “defense void” on China’s offshore fronts, in particular in the South China Sea, given the fact that the US sent in the Higgins, a guided-missile destroyer, and the Antietam, a guided-missile cruiser, last week right after Liaoning sailed out of those waters.

A big navy needs at least three carriers to work in shifts: one berthed for checks, one at sea for training purposes while the third stays combat-ready.

< Edited >


======




loonybin

  • Tyro
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2018, 05:41:48 PM »
Makes one wonder if our upcoming Pohang class be covered by this rule of three.

adroth

  • Administrator
  • Boffin
  • *****
  • Posts: 10174
    • View Profile
    • The ADROTH Project
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2018, 08:58:45 PM »
Makes one wonder if our upcoming Pohang class be covered by this rule of three.

If you’re asking if more Pohangs are forthcoming, not necessarily.

While MPACs came in batches of 3, same goes with our JCPVs, our Del Pilar class Frigates, etc., we only have one Cyclone class boat. Admittedly, that was arguably partly because the USN decided to hang on to the class in the wake of 9-11.

Only time will tell.

If ever, a lone Pohang grouped with other vessels with similar capabilities could achieve the same effect in terms of readiness.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 09:01:57 PM by adroth »

adroth

  • Administrator
  • Boffin
  • *****
  • Posts: 10174
    • View Profile
    • The ADROTH Project
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2018, 03:41:06 PM »
Single-ship classes in the Philippine Navy. Once they go into drydock for maintenance, their capabilities are temporarily lost.

The incoming Pohang class frigate



BRP Mariano Alvarez



BRP Gregorio Velasquez



BRP Ang Pangulo



firstknight

  • Timawan
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 189
    • View Profile
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 01:30:29 PM »
we can also include in the list the following:

>> BRP Magat Salamat (PS-20)
>> BRP Laguna (LS-501)
>> BRP Mangyan (AS-71)
>> BRP Lake Buluan (AW-33)
>> incoming ex-ROK LCU

adroth

  • Administrator
  • Boffin
  • *****
  • Posts: 10174
    • View Profile
    • The ADROTH Project
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2018, 01:55:51 PM »
we can also include in the list the following:

>> BRP Magat Salamat (PS-20)
>> BRP Laguna (LS-501)
>> BRP Mangyan (AS-71)
>> BRP Lake Buluan (AW-33)
>> incoming ex-ROK LCU


adroth

  • Administrator
  • Boffin
  • *****
  • Posts: 10174
    • View Profile
    • The ADROTH Project
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2019, 02:44:15 PM »
The two Jose Rizal class frigates will eventually join this list



adroth

  • Administrator
  • Boffin
  • *****
  • Posts: 10174
    • View Profile
    • The ADROTH Project
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2019, 02:09:38 PM »
https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news/nation/705173/south-korea-wants-to-donate-two-more-pohang-class-corvettes-to-phl/story/

South Korea wants to donate two more Pohang-class corvettes to PHL
Published August 20, 2019 6:03pm

“I think the South Korean government is thinking of donating two more of this Pohang-class... They’re thinking of two,” Lorenzana said in his speech during the welcome ceremony of BRP Conrado Yap.

A welcome ceremony was held at Pier 13 in Manila South Harbor for the BRP Conrado Yap (PS39), which will boost the Philippine Navy’s capability in patrolling the maritime domain.

According to Lorenzana, the Pohang-class corvette will guard the Philippines’ maritime territory and protect the nation’s interest.



adroth

  • Administrator
  • Boffin
  • *****
  • Posts: 10174
    • View Profile
    • The ADROTH Project
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2019, 03:42:16 PM »
< Edited >

Empedrad said they are looking forward to receiving two more ships of the same type from the Korean government.

“They have an initial commitment to add two more Pohangs because they know we usually operate three ships of any type to form a squadron. I requested if they can add more, and there was a positive response,” he said.

< Edited >

Read more: https://globalnation.inquirer.net/179257/philippines-to-buy-two-new-corvettes-from-south-korea#ixzz5xPN9pIb4
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook

adroth

  • Administrator
  • Boffin
  • *****
  • Posts: 10174
    • View Profile
    • The ADROTH Project
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2019, 12:59:40 AM »
https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/iq/239805-list-philippine-navy-upcoming-vessels

< Edited >

Corvettes

Corvettes are the smallest type of warship, a rank below frigates.

The Philippines recently received from South Korea the Pohang-class corvette BRP Conrado Yap (PS-39). Although it had already served the Republic of Korea Navy (ROKN) for nearly 3 decades as the ROKS Chungju, the refurbished corvette is currently the Philippines’ most powerful warship, with anti-air, anti-surface, and anti-submarine warfare capabilities.

Pending a formal contract, the government plans to acquire two brand new corvettes from HHI for about P30 billion, Lorenzana said on August 23.

If the plan pushes through, the two brand new corvettes, although smaller in size, will be “even more powerful" than the frigates BRP Jose Rizal and BRP Antonio Luna, said Empedrad.

To finance the acquisition, the Philippines plans to strike a government-to-government deal with South Korea.

Besides these, the Philippines may receive another two Pohang-class corvettes like the BRP Conrado Yap – not brand new, but hand-me-downs from ROKN.

< Edited >

====

The Conrado Yap will not be alone

PS-39 on Rappler

https://youtu.be/z33steqH2aA









adroth

  • Administrator
  • Boffin
  • *****
  • Posts: 10174
    • View Profile
    • The ADROTH Project
Re: The Rule of Three
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2019, 01:04:06 AM »
< Edited >

Another Pohang-class corvette
The Philippine Navy is also looking forward to getting another Pohang-class corvette from South Korea.

It will be a sistership of BRP Conrado Yap (PS-39), which was donated by South Korea and was added to the Navy’s fleet sometime in August.

The Republic of Korea Navy will retire one of its Pohang-class ships before the year ends, and Empedrad hopes it would go to the Philippine Navy.

“If we can communicate with them na pwede ibigay sa atin (about the possibility of giving it to us) through hot transfer bago ilagay sa (before they place it to the) shipyard, baka pwede na i-deliver sa atin (maybe it could be delivered to us)… South Korea government said the Philippines is a priority because of our close relations. Lagi silang nagpapasalamat nung nagpadala tayo ng contingent (They have always been grateful that we sent a contingent) during Korean war,” he said.

Empedrad said there is a request for at least two more Pohang-class vessels because they usually operate at least three units of the same type.

He mentioned the possibility of retiring BRP Mariano Alvarez (PS-38), a former Cyclone-class ship of the US Navy. It is the only ship of this type in the Philippine Navy.

“We need at least three [ships] because when we buy spare parts, we buy it in bulk. May sad lesson tayo dyan (We have a sad lesson there). ‘Yung ship na binigay ng US, grabe ang gastos natin dyan (The ship donated by US, it cost us a lot),” he said.

“Kung hindi madagdagan (if there won’t be additional ships), I’m contemplating on retiring it kasi magastos (it would be costly),” he added.

< Edited >

Read more: https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1188867/dnd-korean-shipbuilder-sign-mou-ahead-of-corvette-deal#ixzz65Mo7xvFQ
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook