Author Topic: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded  (Read 20099 times)

adroth

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2018, 12:58:03 AM »
Solon says P25-B AFP upgrades a message to terrorists: ‘We’re capable of defeating you’
Published January 10, 2018 7:31pm
By ERWIN COLCOL, GMA News

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news/nation/639237/solon-says-p25-b-afp-upgrades-a-message-to-terrorists-lsquo-we-rsquo-re-capable-of-defeating-you-rsquo/story/

House Appropriations Committee chair Karlo Nograles said that the P25-billion Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) modernization program will improve the military's fighting capabilities in all aspects.

In a news release, Nograles said the Department of National Defense has already given final approval of the details of the P25 billion for the modernization plan.

"We're talking about land, air, and sea upgrades for the AFP. This modernization program will erase doubts regarding the Duterte administration's commitment to our brave men and women in uniform and protecting the country as a whole," Nograles said.

"While our military personnel will no doubt enjoy their well-deserved increase in base pay this year, their morale will get another huge boost thanks to the new combat vehicles they will be getting," he added.

Included in the forthcoming purchases under the modernization plan are 24 attack helicopters worth P13.8 billion, one fixed wing jet worth P2 billion, and one turboprop patrol aircraft worth P1.8 billion.

"If the acquisition of the attack helicopters will be subject to a multi-year acquisition, then the list would also include 44 units of light attack tanks. These will be worth P9.4 billion," Nograles said.

The program will also include payment, through multi-year obligations, for two frigates, an amphibious assault vehicle, and a surveillance radar worth a total of P8 billion.

< Edited >


Invictus

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2018, 04:32:15 PM »
Palace had special interest in Navy’s selection of weapons system supplier

Quote
The Palace, the Department of National Defense (DND), and the Navy discussed the issue hounding the combat management systems (CMS) of the Navy’s frigate program.

It included a letter to President Rodrigo Duterte from the Navy explaining why it preferred Tacticos CMS of Thales Nederlands, Inc. over Hanwha Thales (HTC) for the CMS of the frigates.

Palace preference for Hanwha over Tacticos Thales

Quote
The letter from Go, written in broken English, claimed that while “Thales CMS,” apparently referring to Tacticos CMS, has “many sales records of CMS in many countries including Korea… the End-Users of the many countries has (sic) been suffering from their poor supports (sic) of logistics services and upgrade or modernization of their outdated CMS because they are putting all non-recurring/ development costs for the logistics and upgrade to the foreign customer only due to small number of ships in their home countries with high margin as their profits policy.”

The letter said that the Korean Navy was set to “discard” Thales from its “OEM [original equipment manufacturer] portfolios” because of the above-stated reason.

It also said that “Hanwha will provide Philippines Navy (sic) the most economic and effective logistics and upgrade etc. (almost free riding or on boarding) after delivery or (sic) brand new CMS with the logistic supports based on large number of government funding supports.”

Moreover, Hanwha was prepared to provide “real time 24 hours logistics support in every fleet of Korean (N)avy and will establish a team for Philippines Navy in their fleet with real time network with Korean teams.”

Navy insists on Tacticos Thales

Quote
the FAP PMT “preferred Tacticos CMS over Naval Shield ICMS” because Tacticos CMS “is one of the leading Combat Management Systems in the world considering that it is being used by 23 foreign countries to over 172 ships.”

Tacticos CMS is also compatible with the TDL 16 requirement of the AFP, while “Hanwha’s Naval Shield ICMS’ compatibility with TDL 16 is still under development phase but could not be operational by 2019

Quote
In view of the foregoing, the Frigate Acquisition Project PMT sustains its preference on Tacticos of Thales Nederlands as the CMS for the two (2) PN Frigates...
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El_Filibusterismo1978

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2018, 04:48:59 PM »
that article breed more questions than answers...

1. many sales records of CMS in many countries including Korea… the End-Users of the many countries has (sic) been suffering from their poor supports (sic) of logistics services and upgrade or modernization of their outdated CMS because they are putting all non-recurring/ development costs for the logistics and upgrade to the foreign customer only due to small number of ships in their home countries with high margin as their profits policy ---- they need to elaborate on this one??

2. Hanwha will provide Philippines Navy (sic) the most economic and effective logistics and upgrade etc. (almost free riding or on boarding) after delivery or (sic) brand new CMS with the logistic supports based on large number of government funding supports --- i hope someone could elaborate on this one.. pang electronics na ang kwentuhan nito..

3. real time 24 hours logistics support in every fleet of Korean (N)avy and will establish a team for Philippines Navy in their fleet with real time network with Korean teams ------ "will establish".. ano included sa support? need to elaborate on there end...

kung 2019 pa ma activate ung TDL 16 ibig sabihin di pa compatible with NATO and US Navy sakaling mag karoon ng exercises such as Pacific Rim, etc..

El_Filibusterismo1978

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2018, 04:53:54 PM »
so even the OIC is on the same page of the relieved Mercado that they prefer Tacticos over Naval Shield.. so why relieved Mercado?


El_Filibusterismo1978

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2018, 04:56:07 PM »
one thing i found interesting is nakaabot na pala sa MalacaÑang ang problema sa CMS, so they are not in the dark on the issue....

how about the other replaced systems beside the CMS..


adroth

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2018, 06:51:30 PM »
that article breed more questions than answers...

1. many sales records of CMS in many countries including Korea… the End-Users of the many countries has (sic) been suffering from their poor supports (sic) of logistics services and upgrade or modernization of their outdated CMS because they are putting all non-recurring/ development costs for the logistics and upgrade to the foreign customer only due to small number of ships in their home countries with high margin as their profits policy ---- they need to elaborate on this one??

2. Hanwha will provide Philippines Navy (sic) the most economic and effective logistics and upgrade etc. (almost free riding or on boarding) after delivery or (sic) brand new CMS with the logistic supports based on large number of government funding supports --- i hope someone could elaborate on this one.. pang electronics na ang kwentuhan nito..

3. real time 24 hours logistics support in every fleet of Korean (N)avy and will establish a team for Philippines Navy in their fleet with real time network with Korean teams ------ "will establish".. ano included sa support? need to elaborate on there end...

kung 2019 pa ma activate ung TDL 16 ibig sabihin di pa compatible with NATO and US Navy sakaling mag karoon ng exercises such as Pacific Rim, etc..

Many things in that article don't add up.

====

http://defenseph.net/drp/index.php?topic=2800.msg8882#msg8882
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 08:51:19 PM by adroth »

Invictus

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2018, 05:01:29 PM »
^ Acting FOIC cited Hanwa Thales Co., Ltd (HTC) in his letter to Malacañang, 23 January 2017

that article breed more questions than answers...

1. many sales records of CMS in many countries including Korea… the End-Users of the many countries has (sic) been suffering from their poor supports (sic) of logistics services and upgrade or modernization of their outdated CMS because they are putting all non-recurring/ development costs for the logistics and upgrade to the foreign customer only due to small number of ships in their home countries with high margin as their profits policy ---- they need to elaborate on this one??

2. Hanwha will provide Philippines Navy (sic) the most economic and effective logistics and upgrade etc. (almost free riding or on boarding) after delivery or (sic) brand new CMS with the logistic supports based on large number of government funding supports --- i hope someone could elaborate on this one.. pang electronics na ang kwentuhan nito..

3. real time 24 hours logistics support in every fleet of Korean (N)avy and will establish a team for Philippines Navy in their fleet with real time network with Korean teams ------ "will establish".. ano included sa support? need to elaborate on there end...

kung 2019 pa ma activate ung TDL 16 ibig sabihin di pa compatible with NATO and US Navy sakaling mag karoon ng exercises such as Pacific Rim, etc..


Image source: http://bit.ly/2mO8RHw
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 05:04:55 AM by Invictus »
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Invictus

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2018, 02:05:22 AM »
Design review of 2 frigates to undergo technical inspection: DND
By Priam Nepomuceno  January 17, 2018, 1:13 pm

Quote
Critical Design Review (CDR) of the two frigates, on order from South Korean shipbuilder Hyundai Heavy Industries, has been completed and will now be undergoing examination by the Philippine Navy's Technical Inspection and Acceptance Committee (TIAC) this week.

Quote
Once approved, the CDR will serve as the "Bible" of the shipbuilder in constructing the ship and putting the systems desired by the customer or end-user.

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El_Filibusterismo1978

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2018, 02:40:01 AM »
good luck to the test.. Hope they all fall into place...

ano ba standards ng test? any checklist?

papasok ba sa test ang "swarm attacks from air, surface at subsurface"?


slayermoonlight

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #69 on: January 18, 2018, 04:03:45 AM »
If HHI tells the (noob) Philippine government:  "Take it or leave it", what would you choose?

 #1 Take it? (accept the design and commence steel cutting despite the non-compliances)?

 #2 Leave it? (just cancel the frigate project as per Rep Alejano advice)?

choose your poison wisely

LionFlyer

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #70 on: January 18, 2018, 05:56:56 AM »
#1 Take it? (accept the design and commence steel cutting despite the non-compliances)?

From HHI perspective, there is no non-compliance to speak of, especially given the contract wording. Which means it could be the other way round. HHI can terminate this contract unilateral if it doesn't get its way without any penalties.

#2 Leave it? (just cancel the frigate project as per Rep Alejano advice)?

Going by the wording of the contract, payment so far will be forfeited. See #1.

Taking this to the courts will take years to resolve. Airbus just resolved a dispute with Taiwan over the sale of missiles... from 1992!

 #3, negotiate with HHI and top-up the difference to get your CMS/bells and whistles. Money talks, but the politics would make it an untenable choice.

As distasteful as this saga is, one point needs to be highlighted. The original scope of this project was for a far less capable platform and thus was budgeted accordingly. The seeds of this problem was laid when the scope was revised for a far more capable light frigate by the consultant, midway thru the bid. Not really the consultant's fault as he was trying to do right.

But when you budget to build a two story house and decided to make it three story without any increase in budget.... you must either get lucky with a good contractor willing to absorb the difference or run the risks of someone cutting corners. The risk evidently exploded.

Citing GRSE's statements about being able to deliver at this price point is merely a red herring. It is easy for them to take this position and throw shade at a competitor since they got no skin in the game. Even if the contract with HHI was canned, and project restarted with this scope and no changes to the budget, it is a huge risk because the margins are razor thin and none of the brand name shipyards are interested. You might end up with the likes of GRSE (India), MTG Dolphin (Bulgaria). 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 06:08:19 AM by LionFlyer »

adroth

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2018, 07:47:36 PM »
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 08:51:21 PM by adroth »

LionFlyer

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #72 on: January 20, 2018, 05:46:38 PM »
TTC rightly pointed out that NS ICMS is a "fork" from the original TACTICOS in software terms. But no two forks are equal and the question is less about whether the platform can be easily modified, but who does the work (and pays for it).

Unlike Singapore, Philippines does not have that capability to do that modification and integration work and would be reliant on Hanwah. Who will have to charge for it or offer you the indigenous alternative (Link K for example) for free, but further tying AFP to the SK ecosystem.

adroth

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Re: DND/PHL Navy's Frigate Acquisition Program - awarded
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2018, 01:45:08 AM »
In all the recent discussions about the FAP and Link16, one important part of the project appears to have been missed. SBB NR DND-PN-FAP-16-01 specify Link16 and Link22 as requirements  . . . but were to be FFBNW