Author Topic: Philippine Navy submarine studies  (Read 17155 times)

adroth

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Philippine Navy submarine studies
« on: January 26, 2017, 12:36:49 PM »
The loss of the old forum meant the loss of over a decade of discussions about how the Philippine Navy has been looking at submarine at least as far back as the Estrada administration. Back then, during the time of SND Orlando Mercado, they issued a press release where looking into acquiring submarines in 10 years.

Ten years later, circa 2010 during the Arroyo administration, the AFP issued a press release that they were looking into getting submarines in 10 years. Note that this was . . . 10 years after the previous announcement.

The interest has always been there.

This thread chronicles the process the Philippine Navy is taking towards the creation of its own "Silent Service".

« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 07:25:55 PM by adroth »

adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2017, 12:37:01 PM »
The Estrada Administration

Most references to this effort came by way of Vice Admiral Luisito Fernandez

===

From: http://www.newsflash.org/1999/12/hl/hl011776.htm

Quote
RP NAVY GETS FIRST SUBMARINE IN 2010

Manila, Dec. 20, 1999- The Armed Forces of the Philippines’ modernization program is in full swing, as evidenced by the bold announcement that the Philippine Navy will acquire its first submarine by the Year 2010.

    Vice Admiral Luisito Fernandez said the navy has created a "core group" to prepare and study the submarine acquisition within the next 10 years. The navy needs a submarine to effectively guard the country’s 320-kilometer exclusive economic zone (EEZ) as defined under the UN Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS), Fernandez said.

< Edited >



From: http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/the-philippine-navys-submarine-quest/

Quote
< Edited >

In fact, back in December 1999, then PN Vice Admiral Luisito Fernandez revealed that the navy created a “core group” to evaluate submarine acquisition by 2010. This announcement came about a year after the Second Mischief Reef Incident with China. But the AFP was then preoccupied with counter-insurgency operations in the Mindanao region. As a result, the land forces received the lion’s share of limited defense funding. Not only was submarine acquisition by 2010 impossible, the bulk of the antiquated Philippine Fleet continued its downward slide into disrepair without major revitalization efforts.

< Edited >
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 05:06:17 PM by adroth »

adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 12:37:14 PM »
The Arroyo administration

< TBA >
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 07:26:26 PM by adroth »

adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2017, 12:41:04 PM »
The Aquino Administration

Submarine for Navy? Noy bares AFP shop list
Alexis Romero - () - August 24, 2011 - 12:00am

MANILA, Philippines - President Aquino yesterday enumerated a list of military equipment to be acquired in fulfillment of his promise of modernizing the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) during his term.

< Edited >

Aquino said the Navy is still studying whether it needs to purchase a submarine to secure the country’s territory.

“The (acquisition of a) submarine is being studied by our Navy, whether or not practical, whether or not it meets our needs,” he said.

Aquino said a country in Southeast Asia bought a refurbished submarine for a bargain price of $12 million but ended up spending more to refit the vessel for tropical conditions.

“They ended up spending the same as if they bought it brand-new,” Aquino said.

Navy chief Vice Admiral Alexander Pama said they are cautious on the plans to purchase submarines to beef up their capabilities.

“This is a complicated matter,” Pama said. “We don’t want to commit a mistake by jumping into something. As I said, we don’t want to buy something which eventually we cannot chew and swallow,” he said.

When asked if the purchase of submarines is possible under Aquino’s term, Pama said: “I cannot second guess the President…there are several factors (to be considered)…it starts from our capacity, in terms of resources and second, our readiness.”

< Edited >

Read more at http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2011/08/24/719614/submarine-navy-noy-bares-afp-shop-list#dosbQItxrEDGavJw.99

====

PH Navy's goal: At least 3 submarines
The first step is the creation in 2013 of a submarine office in the Philippine Fleet 'to start developing the necessary skills and infrastructure,' says Navy Vice Commander Caesar Taccad

Carmela Fonbuena
@carmelafonbuena
Published 5:01 PM, December 17, 2014
Updated 5:01 PM, December 17, 2014

http://www.rappler.com/nation/78243-philippine-navy-submarine

MANILA, Philippines – The Philippine Navy has formed a submarine office to start the decade-long process of developing people and facilities to prepare them for the possible purchase of submarines, Navy vice commander Rear Admiral Caesar Taccad said in a modernization briefing on Wednesday, December 17.

"Submarines take a lot of gestation period. The rule of thumb in the development of support facilities, the people and technology of operating such a force is 10 years. Now when should we start? We can start now so we can [acquire] 10 years from now," Taccad said.

The first step is the creation in 2013 of a submarine office in the Philippine Fleet "to start developing the necessary skills and infrastructure." It is part of the discussions on what to acquire next after the ongoing P90-billion fresh modernization program is completed.

The second step, Taccad explained, is to have at least 3 submarines. "But if you cannot afford three, get two just like we're getting two frigates and two strategic sealift vessels so they can replace each other during maintenance. If you only procure one and continuously use it, it will only last for 5 years," Taccad said.

< Edited >

====

Philippine Navy eyes submarines for 'deterrence'
ABS-CBN News
Posted at May 27 2015 05:55 PM | Updated as of May 28 2015 01:55 AM

http://news.abs-cbn.com/nation/05/27/15/philippine-navy-eyes-submarines-deterrence

MANILA - The Philippine Navy said acquiring submarines is part of the plan to modernize the military, but admitted it won't be easy and can’t happen overnight.

Nonetheless, an office to handle the development of submarine capability has been put up, said Navy chief Vice Admiral Jesus Millan.

“What we are pursuing of course is to take the initiative. The first important thing is to acknowledge the importance of such capability for our future requirements,” he said.

< Edited >

“That is why, our initial step in the Navy is to establish an office to start learning about this discipline. It’s important that we learn about it and prepare our troops who will be involved in the development of such capability,” said Millan.

Navy vice commander Rear Adm. Caesar Taccad said in December that the submarines can be used as “deterrence.”

< Edited >
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 07:26:40 PM by adroth »

adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2017, 12:44:21 PM »
In the Duterte administration, with warming PH-RU ties, Rosoboexport's representatives have been working overtime have pitched their submarine line

Russia offering submarines but PHL not keen on buying —Lorenzana
Published December 30, 2016 9:24pm
By TRISHA MACAS, GMA News

Russia is offering to sell submarines to the Philippines but Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana on Friday said that it was unlikely that the Philippines would buy.

In a chance interview with reporters following the Rizal Day commemoration rites in Luneta, Lorenzana said he gave an update on his visit in Russia with Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr. early in December.

"Okay naman. Very aggressive sila na makipag-ano tayo sa kanila na relationship na military--hindi naman alliance kundi exchange lang ng mga estudyante, na personnel, participation sa exercises, mga observer lang sa exercises muna," Lorenzana said.

"At saka, gusto rin nila magbenta sa atin ng mga hardware. So tignan natin kung kailangan natin ang mga hardware nila," he added.

"Gusto nila magbenta ng submarine pero ewan ko... Hindi [natin kaya]. Masyadong mahal. Napakamahal ng submarine. At hindi naman siguro natin kailangan ng submarine dito," Lorenzana said.

- See more at: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/594189/news/nation/russia-offering-submarines-but-phl-not-keen-on-buying-lorenzana#sthash.QOAzVdQK.dpuf

Herbie

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2017, 08:29:26 PM »
DND evaluating Russian offer of diesel-electric submarines

MANILA, Jan. 26, 2017 (PNA) -- Department of National Defense (DND) Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said the country is now evaluating Russia's offer to sell the Philippines some of its advanced diesel-electric submarines.

The DND chief, in a press briefing Thursday, said they are now determining on whether these specialized ships are essential for the modernization needs of the Armed Forces of the Philippines and whether the country can afford to acquire and maintain such an expensive weapons platform.

However, Lorenzana said Russia diesel-electrics submarines are considered to be one of the best in the world.

Six variants of the Russian-made Kilo-class submarines are now being operated by Vietnam People's Navy.

The Armed Forces of the Philippines is expected to acquire its own diesel-electric class submarines during the 2nd Horizon of the AFP Modernization Program which is expected to begin this 2018 and end on 2022.

Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines are mainly intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine operations in relatively shallow waters. (PNA)
BNB/PFN
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 08:31:09 PM by Herbie »

israeli

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2017, 02:03:45 AM »
good thing the process to eventual entry of submarines in PN service has started through the serious consideration of offers coming from Russia, perhaps starting by looking at logistics and personnel training involved to properly prepare PN submariners.

Shrike

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2017, 06:59:33 AM »
Did the offer specify a specific submarine model? 636 Kilo? 677 Lada / Amur?

Ayoshi

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2017, 09:05:12 AM »
other source...
Philippines evaluates Russian Kilo-class submarines | IHS Jane's 360 - 27 January 2017
Quote
Quoting Lorenzana, the bureau said that the DND is "now determining on whether these specialised ships are essential for the modernisation needs of the Armed Forces of the Philippines and whether the country can afford to acquire and maintain such an expensive weapons platform".

Manokski

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2017, 09:34:44 AM »
Does this signal a shift in our Strategic planning?  Going with the Vietnamese model perhaps?

If there is one platform that could put a serious kink in Chinese plans, it would be submarines.  Even 1 operational one would seriously drain their resources at countering it.  Even if we did not get any missiles for our surface ships. 

adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2017, 03:12:31 PM »
Does this signal a shift in our Strategic planning?  Going with the Vietnamese model perhaps?

If there is one platform that could put a serious kink in Chinese plans, it would be submarines.  Even 1 operational one would seriously drain their resources at countering it.  Even if we did not get any missiles for our surface ships.

Apparently there has always been a segment of the PN that has always appreciated the value of submarines. The variable in this story is the priority attached to that POV.

One significant change that has taken place in the navy in the past 10 years is reduction of decisions that used to be in the province of "command prerogative". With initiatives like the Center for Naval Leadership and Excellence incentivizing the organization to think some things through, attention now appears to be given to more long-term thinking . . . beyond the whims of individual FOICs.

Even the way the PN RDC is working appears to now be along longer-term lines. With the formation of an entity to study submarines . . .
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 02:06:59 AM by adroth »

Mr. Pitz

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2017, 04:12:35 AM »
This article from a Philippine Navy magazine gives us an insight about the Submarine Procurement Program as part of the Navy Sail Plan 2028.

Reporting for Duty - Submarine Group Fleet, Newest Unit on the Move

Take note: it is a PDF file.

Here is the diagram based on the PDF file:

Never assume unless it is highly stated.

Protect the integrity, sovereignty and welfare of the Philippine Republic

adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2017, 08:38:23 AM »
Good find Mr. P  :)

Herbie

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2017, 05:55:46 AM »
This is interesting, Naval Base Mactan Project as a PPP. No details yet on that page.

http://ppp.gov.ph/?ppp_projects=naval-base-mactan-project

Would it be fair to speculate that this would be related to our future Silent Service assets? The RSN's Changi Naval Warehouse was also a PPP undertaking.

Quote
Second public-private partnership with Government of Singapore for MINDEF (Changi Naval Warehouse)

http://www.stlogs.com/corporate/milestones/

http://www.stlogs.com/2001/

adroth

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Re: Philippine Navy submarine studies
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2017, 11:02:24 AM »
Even before we get submarines . . . even before the first Wildcat ASW helicopters arrive . . . one area of concern that the Submarine office can work on today is establishment of an acoustic database.

https://maritime.org/sound/

At the very least, the PN should know what its own ships sound like underwater so that it can "whitelist" them as friendlies.